early results from hitting the hybrid that Don flow/spine aligned

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Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
early results from hitting the hybrid that Don flow/spine aligned

Thanks again Don for aligning the hybrid.  So let me start with the disclaimer that I have been spending most of the spring and early summer working on my swing with lessons from our local GG pro.  So my swing isn't in the same place it was back before Don re-aligned the club.  And i've only hit it about 6 times at the range .  Before I was a bit .. ok..pretty inconsistent with it, somethmes hooking it and sometimes right but mostly if I missed, it was left.   I will say those 6 shots turned out better than I recall hitting 6 balls before.   I'm going to work with it some more over the next couple week to see if that holds up or what.  But I will say I was a little surprised to see those shots go as well as they did.

 

So more to come..

 

 

DON
I happy to read that Scott

I'm glad you got to hit the hybrid after the alignment of the shaft. As I told you before, I hit the club AS I receieved it BEFORE I pulled the shaft and did the Spine and FLO alignment on the shaft. Like you, it wasn't all that impressed with the club AS it was. I didn't hit it any where near as well as I hit my Ping 3 hybrid, so I was looking forward to seeing how the alignment would go. After the alignment I re-hit the Cobra hybrid and I felt that it DID feel better than before, with a more consistant ball flight. It did have a more solid feel to it as well. Bottom line for me was that it DID feel better and did give me better results AFTER the shaft alignment was done. What I will save is that it did NOT performs or fell as good as my Ping did. Could be the fact that my Ping Hybrid has a much heavier shaft in it, which is something thta works better for ME. I play a 77 gram shaft in my driver and 85 Gram shaft in my fairway woods, so it makes sense to me that I'd hit my Ping with the heavier shaft better than the Cobra with it's real light shaft.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Yeah, shaft weight is

Yeah, shaft weight is something I'm beginning to look at...I bought a used Cobra driver, the Bio-Cell+ off Global Golf and I hated it.  not sure if it was the club or the shaft, but the shaft was about 10grams heavier.  i wanted to take it over to Golf Galaxy and have them test the flex of the shafts and see what the differences where but man, I knew I wasn't going to invest in a new shaft for it in addition to buying it, so I sent it back quickly.   Hit it 2 rounds, about 5 holes each and hated it..I tend to like a lighter shaft weight where I can feel the club head on the other end, and it may have just been too heavy or stiff for me.

Along those lines, I bought a used TM 4 hybrid and thus far, no liking the results of it either.  Could have been a bad swing day so I'lm not giving up on it, and it was on $50 so I'll keep it but need to work with it.  Plus I gave my old on to my girlfriend and she likes it so I doubt I'll get it back anyway :)

 

 

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DON
Shaft weight and the Pros on Tour

I find it interesting to note that just about ALL new clubs are coming out with really LIGHT weight shafts, which the OEM's claim will allow golfers to swing the clubs faster and hit the ball longer. But if you check the clubs that the Pros use you will find that most ot them use heavier shafts than the OEM put in their clubs. Most Tour pros play a 75 gram shaft in their driver and 85 gram shafts in  their woods. Hybrids can have shafts that weight ever more. Why the OEM's claim that lighter equals Faster and Longer is hard to understand. UNLESS they are looing at the BAD golfers in the world and NOT the good or even the decent ones. I've been measuring my swing speed for about 12 years now, and I can tell you for a fact, that MY swing speed is the SAME with a 55 grams shaft and it is with a 65 grams shaft as it is with a 75 grams shaft. I even tested my swing speed with a Cleveland driver that had a 43 grams shaft. Guess what? I got the same speed as I did with my favorite driver that has a 78 grams shaft in it. While I know that what I get may not be what YOU get, I can tell you that I've measured a lot of other golfers at the driving range and I have NEVER found a golfer that swings faster with the lighter weight shafts. And some of the higher swing speed players went Faster the heavier the shat weight in the clubs. So these reasons I would highly recommend that ALL golfer do a test of their own. Go to a golf shop with a good launcher and Measure their swing speeds with both Light weight and Normal weight shafts and see for yourself what the facts are for YOU.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

DON
Scoot's new toys not working for him.

What Scott has just reported about his new driver and Hybrid is NOT a surprise to me at all. I've tested drivers and woods at Demo Days and every time I go home Happy with my current clubs. I hit the latest and news drivers from the top OEM's with the tech rep right next to me, and EVER time when I hit MY driver side by side with the NEW driver, I always hit MY heavier and older driver straighte and longer then their latest models. Every time I've done this over the yeats the Tech Rep tells me NOT to buy a new clubs as I hit my club better than the new ones.

I've been telling golfer and members of this site and one other golf site for years to NOT buy a new driver or wood, but to have a Better quality shaft installed in their current club. For LESS than the cost of a new or used clubs, you can have a good quality after market shaft installed in the old head and be better off. Fact is you can get a GOOD quality after market shaft for a driver for around $50 or less if you look around. I don't know what others charge to install a shaft in a driver, but I charge $35 to Spine and FLO align the shaft and install it, plus re-install the old grip if it's in decent condition. So for $85 or so an old driver can be tune-ed up with a better shaft for a lot less then the cost of a new driver that WILL come with a CHEAP OEM shatt that will NOT be close to the quality of an after market shaft. Truth is you can pay a LOT more for some of the after market shafts out there, but even the cheaper ones will out perform the Stock shaft that come in the OEM clubs, The UST ProForce V2 shaft is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. It's a MUCH better shaft than what comes standard in ANY off the shelf driver, and it can be found for less than $50 if you know where to buy. I have a few drivers with this V2 shaft installed in them and everyone ot those drivers is better than what the OEM's are selling today.

If you do NOT believe me. do yourself a favor and look at the driver Tiger is using. He gets his driver for FREE from Nike, but he is NOT playing a Nike shaft in his driver. He's playing a Graphic Design shaft instead. WHY? Because the FREE shaft he can get from Nike is a LOW quality shaft that is NOT anywhere near as good as what he can get from the after market companies.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
This is one of the things I

This is one of the things I wish we could change at our local stores but the economics just don't make it work....I haven't hit enough different shafts to know what works best for me and what doesn't.  I know I feel like I don't like heavy shafts...but that's from what I've seen a few times on the course.

Read an article where Golf Digest or Golf Magazine sent 2 players to a Master Fitter at Cobra and the article talked about all the things he did in customizing the shaft for them..different kick points, tipping the shaft, lengthening the shaft, increasing the grip size, etc.  With all the things they did, they measured the results and it was truly shocking the difference the players saw in their accuracy and distance with a properly fitted club.  But we have NO ONE around who has the resources to do that extensive a fitting for you.   So golfers wind up with a fitting that uses stock (sometimes crappy) shafts and you get what you get.    I would actually PAY for a fitting where I got to try different shafts and they tried this and that.  but around here the best you get is S or F or X shafts that the company sends to the stores for fittings...

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DON
Club fitter near YOU

let me do some research and get back to you about finding a good club fitter neat you. I know that there are a few places that have lists of pro club fitters and I'm sure I can find a way for you to find someone in your area that has the setup to find what works best for you and a way for you to try out different shafts and such.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Thanks Don, that would be a

Thanks Don, that would be a fitting I'd pay for, to really get some analysis of what would work best FOR ME.  I went to one guy who was supposd to be the best fitter in town at the time, but I didn't like the resulting irons I got.  But with the iron fitting it was less personal in that we didn't really try different brands of shafts just lie, stiffness and length basically...

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scomac
scomac's picture
After my experiences with

After my experiences with hitting vintage clubs this year, I have given up on buying new OTR clubs from the major OEMs.  My vintage clubs with full weight shafts, be they 130 gm firm flex steel in the irons to 90 gm graphite in the fairways have offered much better results from a playability perspective.  They aren't as long, but they are far more accurate, straight and consistent.  The clubs that have made their way into my bag at this point is a real mix from those that were manufactured originally in 2007 all the way back to the 1970's.  IMO the move to ultralight is a real mistake for the average recreational player as it does not promote a "consistent" swing.  But, hay, it sells clubs on the illusive notion of more distance!

DON
International Club Fitters Guild

http://www.clubfittersguild.org/

You might want to try this link, and maybe give them a call to find a good club fitter in your area.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
So i'm starting to find I don

So i'm starting to find I don't like heavy shafts.  I hit a hybrid yesterday in the PGA Superstore, a Wilson D200 4 Hyrbd with a 54G shaft and was flying it about 212 carry and hitting it pretty well.  Now it was a Regular flex shaft , which I wasnt sure until I got back and was able to look it up .  It used a UST Mamiya Elements Chrome shaft which felt pretty good.   So I may keep a watch out for one.  I may go over to GG and try to get this SLDR S hybrid reshafted to see if that helps.  Or I may just sell it. 

I think I'll go to GG and hit both the regular and the stiff flexs in that shaft and see how the numbers are.  I hit stiff in everything else but I can't deny the data I saw on the launch monitor. 

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DON
I would NOT count on a re-shaft helping

I would not put too much hope in a re-shaft by GG helping your hybrid to perform better. Main reason I say this is that the last time I checked GG, they did NOT do any kind of Spine or FLE alignment on shafts, They just install them in the head any which way, and you will NOT get the most out of the new shaft. Could be worse then what you had before depending on how the factory shaft was orientated, in the head. As I've mentioned before NONE of the club companys take the time to do a Spine or FLO alignement on the shafts they install in their clubs, so you never know what you will get from the club in terms of performance.

And while I think it would be a GREAT idea to hit both the R and S flex shafts in the same shaft model, I would NOT put much faith in the test results for one very good reason. NEITHER of the shaft will have been properly Spine and FLO aligned, so it's a Coin Toss as to how either of them will perform. HEre are some facts you mgiht be interested in knowing. ALL shafts will flex Softer when the Spine is aligned at the 12 O'Clock position and Stiffer when in the 3 O'Clock position,. This is true for ALL SHAFTS. Not just the cheaper one, but for all shafts, even the ones that cost over $1000 per shaft. It's also true that an R flex shaft can flex as an R flex when the Spine is in the 3 O'Clock position, and as as Senior flex when it's in the 12 O'Clock posiition. Again, this can be true for ANY shaft, not matter the price. So what this means to you the golfer, is that ONE R flex shaft may play as an R flex and another of the same make and model and flex label may play as an Senior flex or maybe a Stiff flex, all depending on how much the flex differs on in which directtion the shaf is bent, and how consistantly it bends.

FACT, I had a SET of top of the line Rifle shafts SST pured about 13 years ago. I wanted to have then Pured so I would get the most out of the shafts and my irons they would be installed in, Not to mention the Most for my Moeey investment. The shafts cost $35 each at the time. As a reference, the True Temper Dynamic Gold shafts at that time cost $9 each. So these were NOT cheap shafts by any means. When SSt does the Puring on the shafts, they Measure the flex of each shaft in ALL directions. They mount the butt end of the shaft in a collar and Rotate the shaft through 360 degrees of rotation, and measure the flex at it is rotated, Then they pervide the customer with a Percentage Number for each shaft, which give the percentage of the Max stiffness to the Lowest stiffness for each shaf as it was rotated 360 degrees. There were 8 shafts in the matched set that I had them Pure. The shaft that varied the least, came in at a 97 % consistancely, meaning that if it was installin to play as it's softest, it would flex at 97% of it's max stiffness. The shaft that varied the most, came in at a 87% consistantcy, meaning tht if it was installed to play at it's softest, it would only 87% as stiff as when installed to play at it's stiffest. The other shafts in the set were somewhere in between these two extremes. If you are wondering what all this means, i'll tell you.  With the 97% shaft, I doubt that many golfer would notice a difference in either feel or performance no matter which way the spine was aligned in the head, either at 12 or 3 O'Clock positions. But with the shaft with the 87% numbers, the difference could be VERY easy to notice. A shaft that bends 13 % softer when it's installed to play at it's softest, is equal to a FULL FLEX softer, Bottom line here is that it could play as EITHER a Stiff flex OR as a REGULAR flex, depending on how it was installed in the head.

Do YOU think you could tell the difference between an R flex and a S flex shaft in your clubs? Do you think you'd notice if one of the shafts in your set of irons was an R flex and the rest were S flex?  I sure hope you could tell, either in the feel or the performace. And this was with a HIGH end set of shafts that cost $35 per shaft. When you realize that the factory installed shafts in most OEM steel shaft irons cost arould $3 per shaft, I  think it's pretty easy to guess what the quality of those OEM shaft might be.

The ONLy way to have a shaft preform properly and at it's highest potential, is to have the shaft properly Spine and FLO aligned before it's installed in the clubhead. And the way to get this done is to have the club re-shafted by a clubmaker with a Spine Finder and a FLO alignment tool. A GOOD clubmaker will have these tools and be able to do the work. But Golfsmith can NOT do it, and last I checked, GG can NOT do it either.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

DON
TWO identical drivers, TWO different test results (REPEATED)

About two years ago I reported on this site some interesting results I got from hitting two Cleveland 460 Launcher Comp drivers. They wer both the same loft, 10.5*, Same 460 Comp head, Same OEM S flex shaft, Same OEM grip, Same 45.5" length. I found both of these drivers in the "Used" club rack at Golfsmith one day, the only differences between the two clubs were the PRICE and the condition of the heads. One head had a dozen or so Chips in the paint, while the other head was in excellent condition. The driver with the chipped paint was marked at $35 and the one with the good paint was marked at $50 if I remember correctly, it's been a few years so I might be off a little on the prices.

This happenes to be one of my favorite driver heads, so I decided to hit the both on the launch monitor to make sure the heads were NOT damaged, something that can happen with any composite head like the launcher Comp and some of the Callaway drdivers of the same type.

What I did was I hit Each of the two driver side by side on the launch monitor. I was mostly Listening for the sound at impact, which is one of the best ways to tell if the head is still in good solid condition, and not coming apart at the seams between the graphie crown and the metal body of the head. Both drivers had the SAME good solid sound to them so i know they were both worth buying. What I found odd about the two, was that the driver with the Chipped Paint, I was hitting it pretty much Straight with a good ball flight. But with the driver with the good Paint job, I was hitting a big old SLICE just about every time. I went back and forth between the two drivers for about 20 minutes, and I got the same results, HIt 3 with one, then 3 with the other, Didn't change.

Two Identical drivers in EVERY way other then the paint chips on one, and I got TWO totally different results on the launch monitor when I hit them Side by Side. For ME, there was only ONE conclusion. It had to be the WAY the shafts were instaled in the two heads. IN the end I decided to buy BOTH drivers as I was interested to figure out exactly WHY I was getting so much different results on the launch monitor. To be tolally honest, I did not NEED a new driver much less two but I was determined to solve the puzzle of the twe drivers.

I went home and Pulled the shaft from the driver with the good paint, and did a Spine and FLO alignment on the OME shaft, after which i re-installed it in the head with a new grip. Then i went the the driving range with BOTH drivers to repeat my testing, this time out doors instead of on a launch monitor. Want to guess what I found? I'll save you the trouble of guessing. What I found was that the driver that I WAS hitting with a big Slice, was NOW giveing my BETTER results then the dirver with the chipped paint, the one I was hitting pretty straignt in the store. I was still using the SAME shaft, only now it was Spine and FLO aligned and installed with the Spine at the 12 O'Clock position, making it play at it's softest. All of a sudden, the WORSE driver of the two was now the BETTER driver of the pair. Needless to say, the next day I did the same process to the driver with the paint chips on the head, and I how have TWO equally good drivers. Only difference was the chipped paint, which I took card of by stripping off all of the old paint and re-painting the head to a different color. Since then, I have pulled both shafts and replace them with better after market shafts that are heavier than the OEM shafts, I happend to like 75 gram shafts in my drivers, not the light things the OEM's install.

The REASON I am repeating this information here now, is that I HOPE some of you will LISTEN to what I am telling you about both the Quality of the shaft, as well as HOW it is installed in the head. Fact is it MATTERS, and it made a DIFFERENNCE in how well the club will both FEEL and PERFORM in your hands. If you don't want to believe me, go ahead and BUY a new club every time you are not happy with your current one. And go on spending money on more clubs that do NOT perform any better than what you had. It's YOUR choice, Do what you want with your time and money.

I have NOT played golf with any one on this site other than Scott, so I don't know how well any of you play other than Scott. But having seen Scott play the game, I know for a FACT, that Scott has the talent to play this game pretty well, and I know that he would be able to feel and see the difference a good shaft properly aligned in his clubs would provide. I honestly wish that the next time Scott is in the Denver area that he take the time to stop by and DEMO a few of my clubs that have properly installed shafts, and SEE for himself how much of a difference it can make for his game. I an NOT make anyone here believe me, but I'd bet that ONE seeeion at the range with one or more of my clubs would make a beliver out of most if not all of you.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Excellent point Don.  Could

Excellent point Don.  Could very well be that the new Taylormade hybrid I bought is not properly setup.  That and the weight could be issues.  Will keep that in mind. 

Thanks Don for reposting.  I stumbled onto a company about 2 hrs from me that does custom fittings including Spine/ FLO aligment and reads like I could actually get the fitting I was looking for to compare different shaft setups to see what works best.  I will give them a call and see what the process is, and what's involved and see what the ball park pricing is for their service.  May be making a road trip down there sometime soon.

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GolfGearReview.com Administrator

DON
Any more testng of the hybrid

Any more testng of the hybrid after the Spine and FLO alignment I did on it. Have you had a chance to hit it anymore to see how it performs now compared to before??

I know that Golfsmith USED to offer SST Puring on the shafts they installed at a price of around $30 per shaft. I don't know about other Golfsmith stores, but the store near me NO LONGER offers this service since they moved to a new building and didn't bring the SST Puring machine with them. So you know, SST Puring is Spine and FLO alignment done on a Computer controlled machine, rather than with a Spine Finder and a FLO weight. Same results just done by hand rather than a machine.

It would be really nice if the OEM's would offer Spine and FLO alignment on custom build clubs. The difference in performance is pretty amazing really. They SHOULD do it on ALL of their clubs, but then don't due to the TIME it takes to do the work and that means MORE labor costs that would increase the price of their clubs. Something all of the OEM's don't want.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
So yes... a little...Seems

So yes... a little...Seems like it is going straighter than I used to recall it going.  I've been hitting it less than full swings just due to the situation when I needed it, but I would say it appears as if  it's performing better than it did before.   

Now, today I was in Cary at a club fitting at Golf Etc.  They do Spine/Flo as well but i went in with the idea to just get their fitting service and see where my current gear was.  Well what a surprise...very enlightening.

OK, so here goes my report on the process:
 

Met Joel, the owner, nice guy nice store.   He grabs my driver and puts it on the bench and starts making all sorts of measurement, including checking how well it's aligned...WOW!  It's terrible!  Essentially you afix the grip of the club in a vice and you pull on the shaft at the head and let it swing back and fourth...OR SO YOU HOPE.  Mine didn't quite swing as you might expect.  So that's a problem as was his measured stiffness, of 8.0.  STIFF!   Now that could be a somewhat false reading since some of his other measurements were a bit thrown off by the shaft and how it was oscillating.   Then he checked the Cleveland 588 Fairway woods and they were pretty good actually.  Stiffness and swing weights OK there, or usable, not enough off to make a huge difference.   Then the hybrids..wow again!  They essentially were Women's or Senior flex, but not "stiff" as they were labelled.  Now could be again, his numbers were off but they were clearly not where we tend to think Stiff are.  Irons were ok a bit on the stiffer side, 6.2 maybe. 

So we hit balls with my clubs into the Flightscope system he had.  Showed clubhead speed, ball speed, "smash factor"  launch angle and then calculated things like carry distance, etc.  Lots of numbers.  His deal was he's more concerned with getting your launch angle where it needs to be and your swing speed optimized, and less worried about your spin numbers unless they're way out of whack.   He's trying to fit you to the best performing clubs given the swing you have.

So my 6I, granted only a little warm up so I didn't strip it, produced a club speed of about 80.1 MPH, ball speed of 116.9 with a launch of 11.8 degrees and a carry of 150yards  Now the Wilson's I play or stronger lofted, 6I more like a 5I.  And longer shafted by about 1/2".   He setup a Mizuno MP-H5 with a Project X 5.5 stiff shaft 1/2" longer than normal and I hit it.  Felt great.   Numbers improved..Made better swings too probably but had a swing speed of 87.5, ball speed of 119.9 and a launch of 15.4.  Carry of 173 yards.  So the club was lower lofted, I hit it higher (37ft versus the 58ft on the Mizuno - measure apex of the shot height) and LONGER. 

Now, the reason we got the 1/2" longer shaft in the Project X was because my misses at that point where swings hitting the ball on the toe of the club.  He said my build was such that my arms are long enough to use standard length clubs even though I'm 6'1", but we used the longer shafts to push the club further away, and I actually hit the ball more solid, also contrbuting to the numbers.   So clearly, the Wilsons with their stronger lofts are not helping me launch the ball to maximize distance and in fact I can hit higher lofted irons farther.

Driver, again, probably didn't swing it well, but launch was too low.  Way too locw.  about 9 degrees.  Desired was more like 12, 13 or 14.  That was with the club set to 10.5 degrees.  So i think my swing wasn't great.   Shaft also being long, 46", and stiff didn't help.   So I hit a Callaway Big Bertha Rouge (not available for sale yet!!), 12degree with a Low Spin Shaft Oban Devotion 65/04 shaft and got better numbers across the board.  

So, fitting it great, but you have to be prepared for what you plan to do.   I was thinking before I went down there that my irons were OK and maybe I'd get the shafts Spine/Flo aligned and probably the same for the driver, and didn't know about the hybrids.   then I'm looking at the numbers thinking ok, it makes no sense to spend $$ on fixing the shafts in these because they're too stiff and the club isn't launching right.  So really I need new shafts, aligned and regripped and that's about the cost of new irons.   So that made no sense to do.  I could have lived with them I guess but I choose to order new Mizuno irons instead.  these are fitted to my specs and when they get in , I'm going to play with them a bit then think about going back and letting him align them. 
 

For the driver, I took a simpler approach for now..I bought a new shaft, similar weight but a bit lighter flex to help me get the ball launched higher.  I'll get on the monitor once it's ready and see whether that's 10.5 or 11.5 or what.  Shortened the shaft a bit too from 46" to 45.25.  I may be sending that to Don sometime and paying him to SPine/Flo align it so it's as good as it can be.    Most of the clubs oscillated OK with Joel checked them, but the driver was all over.  It might have been OK at one of the other loft adjustments but where it was, it was inconsistent at best. 

 

So this $50 fitting turned into a bit more costly than that.  but I learned some stuff about my game and clubs in general.  Probably will stop me from buying as much used gear as I was given how poorly things performed...

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GolfGearReview.com Administrator

scomac
scomac's picture
Great report Scott!  When you

Great report Scott!  When you see results like that it makes one wonder if the best course of action when getting new clubs is the go the component route from a club fitter/builder so that they can be exactly to spec.  Otherwise, cheap used seems to be the next best choice with the expectation of reshafting.  Pulls can help there to reduce costs.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Yeah Sco...as I thought more

Yeah Sco...as I thought more about this last night, and seeing the results change as we narrowed in on the right setup for me, I thought about how I've been spending less money buying and trying used clubs through one of the local places.  So I got good prices on good gear, but clearly, and I guess expectedly, it's not built for me.   So it might help me in being longer or more forgiving, but could also be hurting me in other ways that I can't see easily.  

So clearly there's a cost here, right?  A fitting cost and then ordering the customized set.  $1000 for a set of irons is steep.  I've bought several drivers, several sets of irons over the last 3 years and STILL not spent that much.  But I also didn't get them .5" longer so I hit the sweet spot better.  And I didn't have the actual stiffnesss I needed.   And the launch angles were off.   So it seems duanting and expensive and crazy...right?  Will a 20 handicapper se the benefit?  probably but their swing is probably so inconsistent, that it masks some of that.  

You could argue they need it more because they need stuff that will help them the most it can.  And you could say a 5 handicapper can make a lot of stuff work because they do have a solid swing foundation.  Ok, I can buy that too.    Or you could say the 20 handicapper is so all over the map swing wise, it's not really changing their scoring much because they hit 3 ball OB in a round anyway.  Will going to 2 balls OB help that much, to the extent to justify $1000 on a set of irons and another $400 for a driver????  Hard sell. 

But I think this probably curbs my "oh that's cheap let's try it!" mantra from the last few years unless I am willing to ignore the savings and invest in reshafting...

Golf is a game that can only be played...

GolfGearReview.com Administrator

scomac
scomac's picture
Personally, I believe that

Personally, I believe that the better the player the more helpful that the fine tuning will be.  As you have said, the high handicapper is just too inconsistent to really notice much of a difference provided that they have a basic fit to begin with in terms of flex, length and lie.  I think where this can really bacome beneficial is if the individual is continually buying new equipment even if it's just new to him/her.  Get it right the first time and then you should have the confidence that you've been optimized and can ignore the claims of the OEM's marketing machines until something fundamental changes with your game. 

DON
I'm glad you got to go in for

I'm glad you got to go in for a fitting Scott. There is ONE thing you need to know about the machine they used to measure the stiffness of your clubs. The machine they use, ONLY measures the stiffness if the SECTION of the shaft INSIDE the clamp used to hold the club. What this means is that they are really measureing the BUTT stiffness of the shaft, and NOT the stiffness of the entire shaft. That's the problem with the Freq meters most golf shop use to measure stiffness, they ONLY measure the butt on the shaft. Like Scott, I've had my clubs tested on a few of those machines, and I got THREE differenct sets of numbers from 3 different golf shops. All on the exact same set of clubs. This is the reason I do NOT own one of those Freq meters, they don't really do all that much in terms of measuring the overall stiffness of the shafts.

I did go to the Mizuno site and looked at the MP-H5 irons. Pretty nice looking clubs and I hope you like them after they come in. I also agree with your thinking that $1000 is pretty much to spend on a set of irons. Let's just hope they perform at a $1000 level for you.

You mentioned that the 588 Fairway woods checked out pretty good when they were tested. MY question would be this. Do you hit those woods pretty well? Are they some of your better clubs in your bag?

As for your statement on the cost of re-shofting your irons, I'd be surprised if the cost would come close to the $1000 figure they gave you for the new set of Mizuno irons. Depending on which shafts you go with, the cost to have new shafts Spine and FLO aligned and installed in the irons could range from $45 per club for TT Dynamic Gold shafts and go up from there for other high end shafts. Some shafts could cost you $35 to $40 per club if you get the best. Dynamic Gold shafts run around $15 per shaft.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Thanks Don.  So I do like the

Thanks Don.  So I do like the 588s and their flight and results and distance.  Hit them as solid and longer than I did the Pings or TM versions.

And agree, the measurement of stiffness seems to be .. an art...and different people use different methods.  At GG, they hook the shaft to the wall and put a weight on the end of the shaft and see how far down the shaft bends into a chart of stiffness measures.  The guy at the fitting users the frequency meter.  So you get different results.  Now even at GG the driver shaft the weigthed system found it was on the high end of Stiff so maybe it's not an 8.0 but it's probably 7.0.  But it would be good if we could get to one consistent number but that'll probably never happen.

Shaft-wise, his cost for doing the alignment was more in the $60/club range so that plus the shaft plus the grip on 8 club, and then bending them to the lie angle I needed, and I'm pretty close to that $1000 number.  I mean, yes, I could probably do it cheaper but I'm not sure the expense would be worth that given for a bit more I get new irons.  

But it's a trade off...At the end of the day, i play enough golf that if I like them, it'll be worth it. They felt great in the store  and the numbers improved across the board.  

Now, will it change my score, time will tell, but I guess the bigger take away for me was, for someone like me, off the rack cheaper used clubs might not really be that cheap if I want to try and get them to my liking.  

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Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Hey Don

Hey Don

 

What sort of adhesive do I need to hold the shaft adapter in place on my Cobra driver shaft?  GG didn't have the adapter needed for my Cobra driver so when I had them reshaft it, I told them to pull the adapter off the current shaft.  So I'm buying an adapter for it off ebay, but curious about what type of adhesive I need to glue it onto the shaft.   I'm assuming not Elmers and not Crazy glue...  :)

 

 

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scomac
scomac's picture
Scott,

Scott,

You need epoxy.  Make sure you get the correct kind from a golf equipment supplier like Golfworks. <http://www.golfworks.com/default.asp>

It comes in a dual plunger syringe so that it controls the mixture as you apply.  Get the high impact type rather than the quick set.  The shaft tip will have to be prepped before "gluing" the adaptor on.  Typically fine emery cloth is used to abrade the shaft, but go easy on how much material you remove.

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Thanks Sco

Thanks Sco

Saw some on Amazon that's designed for golf club building/repair.  Looks like that'll do the trick. 

S

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DON
Shafting Epoxy

I use shafting epoxy that i get from Goflsmith. I also use Shafting beads mixed in with the epoxy to unsure that there are no direct contact of the shaft and the hosel. That would mean a BARE  spot which would weaken the bond, which would not be good.

NOW would be the perfect time to have the shaft Spine and FLO aligned, BEFORE you have the adapter installed on the shaft. Figure out which way you want to set the adapter in the head, (which setting) and then install the shaft AFTER it is FLO aligned into the adapter with the adapter installed in the head at the setting you plan to use.

IF you just install the adapter on the shaft any old way, there is not telling how the shaft will perform in the dirver.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

DON
No surprise here.

Thanks Don.  So I do like the 588s and their flight and results and distance.  Hit them as solid and longer than I did the Pings or TM versions.

I HOPE that you put two and two together here and come up with one thing.. The fairway wood that were"Pretty Good" when tested for FLO. are the SAME clubs you hit the BEST. What you are finding is exactly what I've been told by golfers that I have done a Spine and FLO alignment on one or more of their clubs. Better performance and more SOLID feel are the two things I hear to most.

 

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.

Aimee
Aimee's picture
custom irons

Scott, I spent around $1000 on my Ping irons when I bought them. I have shot lower scores with them. I think that as long as you have a pretty consistent swing, it is worth the investment in custom-fitted irons. Not all 20 handicappers are created equal, as an example my husband is pretty good with his irons...but still shoots around 100 because of other flaws in his game. Enjoy your new irons when you get them.

It's not how...it's how many

Scott Rushing
Scott Rushing's picture
Yeah, I agree AImee.   Once

Yeah, I agree AImee.   Once you reach a point where you have a consistent swing, i think it's a worthwhile investment.    I think I'm done buying off the rack clubs now, after seeing how far off all the ones I had in my bag were.  Stiffnesses from 3 up to 8!!!!  So I think now I'll stick to being more properly fitted in the future, though I'm not expecting to need that much in the near future.  Well I may need driver fitting at some point because I would like to optimize that. 

Now, let me say this, I did shot 73 twice with what was in that bag.  So it's not like the fact they were "off" or not "optimal" destroyed my game.  Could they have cost me a stroke here or there over the course of several rounds, sure.  But most of the bad results where usually a swing I knew was bad.  

So unless you want to delve into building out your club making/fitting skills and equipment, find a good club fitter and stick with them.

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DON
Hard to say Scott

Ther is no way to know for sure how much your clubs are holding you back on the course, or for that matter, now much they MESS with your head at the driving range or practice area. Some of your BAD results are for sure due to the clubs not being the best. Maybe some of your BAD hit balls were due to the club, and NOT to your bad swing. Hard to tell when the clubs do not perform the same way very time due to the shafts not being properly aligned in the clubhead.

As I have said before, we played enough rounds together when you were here in Denver to know that you have to skill to really TELL the difference in performance were you to have all your clubs worked on by having all of the shafts properly Spine and FLO aligned in the heads. I have ho doubt that you could both SEE and FEEL the difference in the clubs. To be Honest, I'd be Shocked if you were to play a full round of golf with MY clubs, that you didn't notice a big difference in the performance of the clubs and I'd be surprised if you didn't score at least a few strokes lower with my clubs. If you were to hit them enought to GET USED to them, you would see even lower scores as you got used to the feel of my clubs and what you could expect in terms of carry yardages. In case I have not mentioned in lately, You have a standing invite to come out to Denver and play a few rounds with ANY of my clubs that you care to try out. I have more than enough sets of good irons for you to pick from, and more than enough woods and drivers to fill out a few extra bags. Any time you get in the mood to come out an play some golf and hit some different clubs, you're welcome to do so. This goes for ALL of the regulars on this site as well.

Don

Putting is easy if you have the Right Putter.