I am in the market for new irons and have narrowed the choices to the new X-18 and the rac OS2. I have hit both and they both feel great to me. I am having a tough time deciding on which one to get. I am an 18 to 20 handicapper and am looking for a club that I can also use as I hopefully lower my handicap or a club that will allow me to grow with. I have Callaway drivers and love the feel and right now that would be the only reason I would go with the X-18.

I have never hit two different clubs that felt so much alike. Any feedback from the crowd who play with either of these clubs would be appreciated.

They advertise these clubs to low - mid - and high handicappers, but are they really? Thanks! [QUOTE]The price is wrong --! (Happy Gilmore [/QUOTE]

Scratch,
I am looking at my Golf Digest 2005 Hot List issue. It says the Rac OS is geared to mid to high handicappers, so have no fear. If price is a consideration, you probably could fing the Taylors cheaper.
As far as "outgrowing" clubs as you get better, in my opinion, it really never happens. The Callaway staff has pros that play (and have won with) their Big Bertha model that is supposedly geared to the highest of handicaps. I started playing Ping cavity backs over 3 years ago. My handicap has gone from a 17 to a 7 using the Pings. I have a set of Mizuno Mp-33 blades now also, but it was kinda just to see if I was "good enough" to hit blades, not that I had outgrown my Pings. I shot my lowest scores with my Pings this season. Get what you hit the best, but if you are starting with a higher handicap, get one that is forgiving. You will get better despite them being easier to hit. Take it from someone that has both blades and cavity backs, the argument that a blade will "teach" you how to swing properly is a bunch of bunk! If my swing is off at all, I don't even think of playing the blades! Hope this helps and that you enjoy your new clubs!

Thanks Mr. Divots for the educated input. Someone else had told me also that pros can play the Berthas and X series irons because Callaways technology allows the golfer to shape shots like blades. I am glad is wasn't just a sales pitch.

Thanks again!

Mr Divots stated that good players can still play well with forgiving irons, he didn't say a golfer will be able to work the ball with the Callaway X-16's or X-18's. That's a whole different story. I have tried to work the ball with the X-16 irons and it's not easy. Damn near impossible. I built a set of Snake Eyes 600C forged irons for that very reason. I wanted to be able to work the ball when I want too. If working the ball is important to you, I suggest you try working the ball with both the X-18's and the RAC OS2's outdoors before you hand over your money. If either of them come in a "pro or tour" model, you might want to try those also. You might have better luck working the ball with the "pro" model. I can hit my X-16 clones quite well, beautiful high straight, long ball flight, but working the ball is not in the cards.

I must be really, really good. How can I still be a 7 handicap?! I am able to work my Ping I/3 O-size without a problem. They have a good deal of offset built into them. Offset does not take away the ability to work the ball. It aids in allowing extra time to square the clubface to the ball. "Working" the ball is all about setup, it's still the same swing after that, whether you're hitting a draw, fade, or offset cavity vs. blade. An offset club will reduce how dramatically the ball curves, but unless you're Tiger and you're looking to hook the ball 60 yards around a tree, most of us "mere mortals" do not need that ability. A five or ten yard fade or draw will suite most people just fine.
Don, I'm surprised. Normally you tell people to use clubs to suite their ability. Scratch said he is an 18 handicap currently. Why should he use a club that is harder to hit? Sounds like his choices of the OS2 or X-18 would be very good choices for him. The Golf Digest even remarked how these clubs were very good and that it IS possible to work the ball with them. I know when I was a 17 index, I wanted to hit it straight! The same clubs still suite me just fine!

I didn't say not to get the OS2's, I just stated that if working the ball is important to him, he might want to try a set of irons that are more suited to working the ball. If he is happy with hitting in straight, than my all means get the OS2's or X-18's or any other club that he likes. I have the 2003 and 2004 Golf magazine club test issues, and if you were to read the testers reviews of the different irons, you will see that a lot of real foregiving clubs are not real good for working the ball. Some of them are listed as being okay for working the ball, but not many. You mention that offset is not a factor in working the ball, that may be true, but it's not what the manufactures say in their catalogs. The ones I have read, all state that the "pro/tour" version of the irons have less offset and one advantage is that you can work the ball easier. What did Golf Digest say about the clubs? Did they say "it's possible to work the ball", or did they say "it's easy to work the ball"? That's a big difference in my opinion. Just so that you and I are on the same page, I agree, that for most players hitting the ball straight is much more important then being able to work the ball. Myself included. But I do want to learn to work the ball at will for when I need that ability. Right now at my level of play, I don't need to work the ball very often, but I do want to get to the level where working the ball could be the difference in breaking par or shooting 2 over. Right now, I can work the ball with all my woods, 3,7,and driver, but not my short irons. It might be my LX2 irons or it may be me, but it's rare that I hit a ball that doesn't fly straight. Not always in line with my intended target, but straight. I also agrre that a blade will not "teach" you to swing properly, but I do feel that a blade will cause your bad swing to show up more in the way the ball reacts. You can't get away with a bad swing as much with a blade, and that will tell you, you are doing something wrong. With a real foregiving iron, you might not know you made a bad swing, because the ball still flew straight. I know that's the case with me. I can be hitting good shots with my LX2's, and if I start hitting my Snake Eyes 600C's, if I don't make real good contact with the ball, it shows up real fast. The 600C's may not "teach" me to make a good swing, but they sure tell me when I don't. And that helps to force me to "learn" to make a good swing. One way to look at it is this. With the LX2's, I have to make a good swing to get close to the flag, with the 600C's, I have to make a REAL good swing to get close to the flag. Is that something you can agree with in your experence with your blades and cavity back irons?

I can absolutely agree with that statement. If your swing is off with blades, it will show up really quickly. I also stated that the ability to work the ball IS reduced with offset clubs.
As far as working short irons, its the same principle in effect that makes higher lofted woods go straighter, despite offset or no offset. More backspin imparted on the ball negates sidespin. Longer clubs have a flatter face and don't put as much backspin on the ball, therefore they are easier to work the ball.
My point being, Scratch is an 18-20 handicap currently. I don't know of a single teaching pro that would recommend to him at his current level that he should be concerned with working the ball. The newest Golf Digest Hot List did state that many of the "Game Improvement" category irons had the ability to work the ball (Nike NDS, Callaways, etc.) Being that I have both offset and non-offset clubs, I thought I was in a position to be able to offer some objective advice.
Being that about 65-75% of a player's score is determined by shots of 100 yards or less, we are making too big a deal about irons anyway. Wedges and putter are the most important clubs in the bag anyway!

I still plan to learn to hit my forged irons and when I can hit them well enough, I'll start playing with them. Until then, I will practice with them only and play with my LX2's. I just got a forged 60* wedge that has no plating in the groove area of the face. I have a fully plated one of the same model also. So I will let you know how the spin and ball damage is with the two versions of the same club. Will be interesting to see how much more damage the sharper grooves do to the ball. Golfsmith was closing out the 5040 wedge heads for $20.00, so I decided to buy a spare for when my current one wears out. That's the one problem with practiceing your sand game with forged irons, they wear out faster than stainless steel cast clubs.

Don, I agree that blades are better for working the ball however I think with Scratch he need to get his confidence up first and starting with blades is not going to do that for him.

I would recommend him starting with some very forgiving clubs which if he is able to hit straight and score some low rounds with he can always go for blades later.

I play a lot of golf in the wind and I have to hit low draws and hooks quite a lot to get extra carry under the wind. My blades help me a lot with this. That said, my clubs during my "formative" years were forgiving off-set cavity backs and using them got my confidence up and got me wanting more. I just fear that if Scratch starts with clubs that he can't even hit straight then he will lose confidence and his game will suffer.

Maybe a good test is if Scratch can go around the course and hit all his woods and irons dead straight it is time to think about blades. Until then he should hang on clubs which at least assist him to achieve the straight shot.

Bartman

I just found this group because I'm in the same boat you are. I am looking at new irons and I'm about a 22 handi.

2 days ago I hit the new X18 and OS2s in the simulator. I only hit the 6 and 8 of each with steel stiff shafts. There was one glaring difference - the feel on off-center hits.

It became apparent when I hit the exact same shot towards the toe with the 6 iron of each set. The result of the ball flight was identical on the simulator. BUT, the OS2 viberated like all hell and the X18 felt like butter. Some people say that it is good feedback when an off center hit feels bad because it teaches you to hit it correctly. I'm not so sure how I feel about that.

The backs of the irons look completely opposite. The X18s have the "parimiter weighting" while the OS2s have the weight in the middle. I'm guessing that this might explain the different feelings. Like I said though, the result was the exact same so I'm as torn as you are.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mr_divots:
[qb]
I don't know of a single teaching pro that would recommend to him at his current level that he should be concerned with working the ball. . Wedges and putter are the most important clubs in the bag anyway! [/qb][/QUOTE]These are the smartest things I've read on this message board yet.
Ya know I hear the "working the ball" thing from several high handicappers at the coarse all the time and it really just makes me shake my head.
I'm currently sitting at a 4.7 handicap and I want to get better, much better. I hit apprx 1200 balls a week and am at the coarse practicing 5-6 days . When I'm on the range after I've gone thru my routine I'll start dinkin'around and and take the last few balls and hit one draw (that's easy cause it's my natural ball flight) one fade and one straight over and over till the balls are gone.
But right now I hardly ever hit other than what's natural on the coarse (a draw) unless I absolutly have to like from around a tree or something I wouldn't even think of it yet off a tee .
My point is why do these guys even think that way? when I was a 20ish or so I was happy to get the ball going in the general direction of the fairway
muchless about "working" it, am I missing something here ?
Rol.

oh and btw I hit the Nike NDS yeterday , wonderful club , everybit as good as the Ping i3 blades I used to play and at half the cost .

the argument that a blade will "teach" you how to swing properly is a bunch of bunk! [/QB][/QUOTE]

I have to disagree here , you can say it's a bunch of bunk for you, but this game is soooo funny (your a 7 you should know that) that what works for one doesn't work for another and visa versa .
It most certainly helps me when my swing goes out the window I have a set just for that but again that's me .
just my 2 cents
Rol.

oniwha?
You said it. What works for one person can be totally different for others. I have the Pings and Mizuno MP-33 blades. If my swing is off, I'm not going to be a masochist and make myself hit blades until my swing feels better. Hitting the offset cavities well gives me confidence, which is half the battle! Honestly, too much time, money and thought is spent on irons. My biggest drop in handicap came after I found the right putter this season. I hit the majority of my range balls with wedges from about 130 yards and in. Driver has been my downfall many times. Hoping a new custom fit shorter shaft does the trick.
Its funny, I saw a video clip of Vijay doing a range clinic. One of the questions was "I'm having a problem working the ball." He replied with a smirk, "What's the problem, so hit it straight!"
Well said Vijay. Who said that guy has no sense of humor!