Can anyone recommend a good golf training facility? Has anyone tried any of the Leadbetter schools or the PGA Tour academy? What's a reasonable price point for a decent school? Recommended number of days?

I've heard the Harvey Pennik school is very good, down in Austin. They had a two for one deal awhile back where you sign up for the class, and get to bring a friend for free. Waiting for them to repeat the deal and might head down with a playing partner if they do it again.

As for length, I'd think you'd want a 3 day session at least. Maybe Bill has a good idea on this.

Chris,
If $ is not the most important factor, go the a 3 day or 4 day course in Las Vegas with Butch Harmon. He's very good, and as may be expected, spendy.

If not going to a school with Harmon, Ledbetter, Haney or another known to be great teacher. Check with the PGA in your area, find out who is considered the best teaching pro in your section and take a series of lessons from that person.

www.butchharmon.com

You know, if any of you guys would be interested, we could contact a golf academy and see if they would be willing to offer a discounted rate for some contributors of GolfGearReview.com to come down and spend a few days with their instructors. Then, obviously come back and turn your experience into a few feature articles.

If you have any ideas, or if there are academy's close to you, please feel free to suggest. I think this would be a fun exercise.

thoughts?

Hi Bill, right now, money is unfortunately an issue. As you pointed to in the second part of your post, I may look around locally too. I need to get out and play more this year, and I think kicking the season off with a clinic would be a great way to get motivated. A few years ago, I bought a lesson package at a local Muni that really helped me shave about 5 strokes on average going forward. thought it was REALLY worth it.

Hmmmm... which leads me to another idea... a lessons and tips section on the site - not just in the forums, but also in article form...

Chris,
Actually you're right...........However, instead of discount rates, see if they will comp a session for one or a couple of people for advertising and endorsements on the site.

Ok, that's a good idea. We could pitch an "Advertorial" where we give them a nice detailed feature article bundled with a month of a banner ad run or something..

Mike McGetrick acadamy is here in the Denver area. He's one of the top 10 or 20 golf instructors in the country. Would he work for what you have in mind for a group lesson for a few site members?

David Glenz Academy in Northern NJ

Don, I just emailed the McGetrick Academy and asked them to contact us about sending someone over to do a feature article and review.

Amy, looking into David Glenz Academy.

Chris; I just can't resist mentioning that Amy is really Aimee. Not toooo bad, you got 2 letters correct.

Chris, Forget about the last thing I just typed

You are a fine person and should be looked up to at all times for your email to the McGetrick Academy. What a great idea.

How's that? Did you forget the first part of this post yet?

Oops... sorry Aimee...

Is there anyone else in here from Colorado that can go to a free golf academy?

Does this mean you got a positive reply from McGetrick academy?

No reply yet, just planning ahead...

That wasn't very nice. You had my hopes up. I did mention it to two of my playing partners, and they are both interested in going to the academy and should be signing up as new members to the site pretty soon if they haven't done so already.

I think whoever goes to this academy, on a free ride, should donate $500 to GGR. A person always gets so much more out of a learning experience when a monetary consideration is involved.
The money can then be used for a monthly give away. If the person(s) attending the academy write great reviews, they may even win their own donation.

Don, you love it when I come up with these great ideas, huh?

Not really Bill. I'm sitting here wondering why I even like you at the moment. Give me time and I might think of some redeeming quality for you. Just don't rush me on this one.

LOL. Ouch.. Anyway, good luck Don.

I called the McGetrick Academy and talked to a gentlemand that is going to check to see what we can work out for a class to attend and do a feature article on for the site. Will let you all know more when I know more.

Cool, keep us updated...

Weather has been much too cold to be taking lessons for the past 2 weeks. I am still working on setting up an appointment for a lesson and fitness evaluation with Eric Johnson. Turns out McGetrick is associated with the Titleist Prefromance Insiture and I am looking forward to meeting with Dee Tidwell, so is the fitness expect with McGetrick Academy. Will post an update when the weather inproves and I have a meeting with these gentlemen.

Well; I met with Mr. Dee Tidwell, who is the golf fitness expert with McGetrick Golf Academy. He did a one hour fitness test on me this morning. Mostly measureing my range of motion. With this infromation, he will be setting up a workout program for me to follow for the next 6 weeks. After 6 weeks, I need to go back so he can re-do the test and see what kind of changes have been made in my sad body. The session was very interesting and quite complete. I should be getting my personelze workout program with videos in the next 3 to 4 days.
The man is the picture of health and fitness. He truely looks like a guy that just completed an Iron Man competition, and had fun doing it. I have no idea what his body fat percentage is, but I'd be will to bet it a single digit number.

I did that with a TPI instructor in Houston once, Don. I thought it was very good. I liked the program, but a couple of weelks into it is when I injured my shoulder so badly. Still, I would like to go back and do it again, and just tell her to ease up on me some.

The guy I worked with is also TPI certified. I should be getting my workout schedule any day now. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with for an old goat.

I got my test results back and after reading the findings, I'm surprised I can hit a ball at all, Not a pretty fitness report if you ask me. I'm posting the whole report here. It's pretty long, but I wanted you to see just how much detail was involved in the testing process. Next thing to do is go to the site and see exactly what my workout schedule looks like and then get started on my road to improvement. Wish my luck, I think I might need it.

Here's the full report, sorry about the length of it.


Evaluation Findings

Client: Don Fisher
Pro: Dee Tidwell
Pro Email: deetidwell@hotmail.com

Your Golf Fitness HandicapT: 17.2


Mobility


You have 141-150 degrees of flexion in your lat muscle on the right. Normal range of motion on the PGA Tour is over 180 degrees. Any limitation in the right lat can limit your ability to rotate your trunk around your lower body past impact and it can cause your right arm to be restricted through your finish




You have 141-150 degrees of flexion in your lat muscle on the left. Normal range of motion on the PGA Tour is over 180 degrees. Tightness in this muscle can lead to loss of spinal posture as the arms are elevated during the backswing. Plus, this can restrict your overall shoulder turn during the backswing.


You have 66-70 degrees of right rotation in your neck. Normal range of motion is over 75 degrees. You are just below the average range of motion. If this range of motion becomes any tighter it may start to limit your ability to maintain your posture during the downswing and prevent your from fully rotating your shoulders through impact.
You have 66-70 degrees of left rotation in your neck. Normal range of motion is over 75 degrees. You are just below the average range of motion. If this range of motion becomes any tighter it may start to limit your ability to maintain your posture during the downswing and prevent your from fully rotating your shoulders through impact.

You have limited flexibility between your upper and lower body when rotating your trunk to the right. Normal right rotation is over 70 degrees on the PGA Tour and you had 41-50 degrees. This will limit you ability to fire your trunk around your lower body and maintain a good stable posture through impact and your finish.



You have limited flexibility between your upper and lower body when rotating your trunk to the left. Normal left rotation in over 70 degrees on the PGA Tour and you had 41-50 degrees. This will limit you ability to fire your trunk around your lower body and maintain a good stable posture through impact and your finish.



You had 41-50 degrees of right rotation in just your thoracic spine. Normal for the PGA Tour is over 60 degrees. More rotational flexibility in the thoracic spine will definitely help you create coil between your upper and lower body during the backswing.


You had 41-50 degrees of left rotation in just your thoracic spine. Normal for the PGA Tour is over 60 degrees. More rotational flexibility in the thoracic spine will definitely help you cover or fire your upper body around your lower body during the downswing and finish.
You have good flexibility in both your hip flexors.

You have good flexibility in both quadriceps.


You have good flexibility in both TFL's (the muscle on the outside of your thigh).

It is difficult for you to modify the position (tilt) of your pelvis in golf posture. This is an important skill for being able to transfer energy from the lower body to the upper body in the swing. In top level players, their pelvis tilts backwards almost 20 degrees during the downswing due to the contraction or firing of their abdominals. Your limitation can be due to lack of mobility in your lumbar spine or weakness in the abdominal and gluteal muscles.



You have difficulty rotating your lower body independent of your upper body. This can prevent you from initiating the downswing with a proper sequence and limit the coil (x-factor stretch) between your upper and lower body.


You have good coordinated control of the muscles that rotate your lower body independently from your upper body. This is important for proper sequencing in the golf swing.
When standing in golf posture, you have the flexibility to separate your upper body from your lower body. This is important for creating power and maintaining a stable posture between your upper and lower body during the swing.
It is tough for you to perform a full deep squat while keeping your heels on the ground. Because of this limitation, maintaining a flexed, stable posture during the downswing becomes close to impossible.
It is tough for you to perform a full deep squat while keeping your heels on the ground due to limited calf flexibility bilaterally. This can make it extremely difficult for you to maintain good posture through the impact zone. Because of this limited flexibility in your calves, maintaining a flexed posture from the waist down and preventing any forward thrusting towards the golf ball during the downswing becomes close to impossible.
You do a great job of evenly distributing your weight between your right and left side during routine movements, like performing a squat.

It is difficult for you to bend over and touch your toes with your knees locked. This can be due to a bilateral hip restriction or inflexibility in your lumbar spine, calves and hamstrings. These limitations can make it difficult to set up in a good golf posture and maintain that posture throughout you swing. Hip restrictions can make sitting into your right hip on the backswing and posting into your left hip during the downswing seem impossible. They can also lead to lower back and hip pain during golf.



It is difficult for you to bend over and touch your toes with your knees locked. This can be due to a bilateral hip restriction or inflexibility in your lumbar spine, calves and hamstrings. These limitations can make it difficult to set up in a good golf posture and maintain that posture throughout you swing. Hip restrictions can make sitting into your right hip on the backswing and posting into your left hip during the downswing seem impossible. They can also lead to lower back and hip pain during golf.


The total external rotation in your left shoulder is over 90 degrees while standing tall. The average range of motion for players on the PGA Tour is over 90 degrees. You have good external rotation in your left shoulder, which should allow you to rotate your left arm properly through impact and the follow through.
You tend to lose the ability to fully externally rotate your right shoulder when getting into your golf posture. This is usually due to lack of stability in the shoulder blade on the right when bending from the waist. In other words, your right shoulder blade tends to move or shift excessively when you get into golf posture and this directly limits the total range of motion in the shoulder joint itself.

You have moderate functional hamstring flexibility on the right and moderate iliopsoas flexibility on the left.



You have moderate functional hamstring flexibility on the left and moderate iliopsoas flexibility on the right.



You have 41-45 degrees of internal hip rotation (rotating your foot inwards) on the right. Normal hip internal rotation on the PGA Tour is over 45 degrees. Any reduction in hip internal rotation on the right can lead to an inability to rotate around your hip on the backswing (sway).


You have 51-60 degrees of external hip rotation (rotating your leg outward) on the right. Normal hip external rotation on the PGA Tour is over 55 degrees.

You have 41-45 degrees of internal hip rotation (rotating your foot inwards) on the left. Normal hip internal rotation on the PGA Tour is over 45 degrees. Any reduction in hip internal rotation on the left can lead to an inability to rotate around your hip on the downswing (slide).


You have 51-60 degrees of external hip rotation (rotating your leg outward) on the left. Normal hip external rotation on the PGA Tour is over 55 degrees.

Stability
You tend to lose the ability to fully externally rotate your left shoulder when getting into your golf posture. This is usually due to lack of stability in the shoulder blade on the left when bending from the waist. In other words, your left shoulder blade tends to move or shift excessively when you get into golf posture and this directly limits the total range of motion in the shoulder joint itself.
The total external rotation in your right shoulder is over 90 degrees while standing tall. The average range of motion for players on the PGA Tour is over 90 degrees. You have good external rotation in your right shoulder, which should allow you to set the club and rotate your right arm into any position that you want during the backswing.
You are good at stabilizing your lower body and rotating your upper body independently in both directions. This is important for creating power and maintaining a good spine angle between your upper and lower body during the swing.

You have a good ability to stabilize your upper body when asked to rotate your lower body independent of your upper body. This will help you generate power and create a proper downswing sequence.



You have lost mobility and strength in the muscles that control the left shoulder blade and shoulder girdle. This will lead to loss of width in the left arm and limited range of motion in the leftt shoulder during your golf swing.



You have lost mobility and strength in the muscles that control the right shoulder blade and shoulder girdle. This will lead to poor posture and limited range of motion in the right shoulder during your golf swing.


The muscle on the outside of your right hip, the glute medius, is not firing properly (inhibited) or it is weak. This can be due to chronic muscle imbalances or lack of use. This limitation can lead to lateral instability in the right leg during the backswing.

The muscle on the outside of your left hip, the glute medius, is not firing properly or it is weak. This can be due to chronic muscle imbalances or lack of use. This limitation can lead to lateral instability in the left leg during the downswing.



We tested your right gluteal strength in what is called a bridge position. It was very difficult for you to stabilize your pelvis in this position, which indicates a weakness in the right glute max. Right glute weakness can cause instability in your right leg during the backswing and limited power on the downswing.



We tested your left gluteal strength in what is called a bridge position. It was very difficult for you to stabilize your pelvis in this position, which indicates a weakness in the left glute max. Left glute weakness can cause instability in your left leg during the downswing.



Balance
We tested your ability to stand on your right leg only with your eyes closed. This is testing a trait called proprioception or your "feel balance" on the right side of your body. You could only stand for less than 5 seconds before having to open your eyes. 25 seconds is considered good balance for the elite golfer. This limited balance on your right side can limit your ability to load into your right side or cause you to lose stability during the backswing.

We tested your ability to stand on your left leg only with your eyes closed. This is testing a trait called proprioception or your "feel balance" on the left side of your body. You could only stand for less than 5 seconds before having to open your eyes. 25 seconds is considered good balance for the elite golfer. This limited balance on your left side can limit your ability to post into your left side or cause you to avoid your left side during the downswing.



Posture
You have too much arch in your lower back at set up. We call this a S-posture and it can put excessive stress on your lower back and cause instability of your lower body throughout the golf swing.


The MYTPI program is intended for golf performance improvement. The physical evaluations and exercise programs suggested here are developed based on the assumption that you are in reasonably good health and are not intended for injury rehabilitation. The MYTPI program is no substitute for individualized medical advise. You should consult your doctor before you begin this or any exercise program.

The physical evaluations described here require you to perform various movements to help you to understand where you might have relative strengths or weaknesses. If you feel pain, discomfort, out of breath or dizzy during any of these physical evaluations, you should consider that an "Incomplete" test and move on to the next evaluation. You should stop exercising if you feel pain, discomfort, out of breath or dizzy while performing any of the exercises described here.

Well Don, after looking this over, it all beg's a question.

Is fishing good in the Denver area?

Bill, I hear you my friend. I'm thinking Beginner level Kite Flying might be more suited to my body fitness level at this point. Fishing might be a bit much I'm afraid.

The Good News is TPI was able to come up with and exercist routine for me to follow. Will have to give it a try and see if it helps. From the fitness report, I doubt it could hurt any.

Holy cow! Don, how do you manage to stand upright???
Serious question, though - did they let you warm up before checking your flexibility? Because if not, of course you're going to show limited range of motion.

Don, one word for you: YOGA. You need some help my friend.

Fishing? Bill, he can't fish in this condition. He's always be casting to onside or the other, missing his intended line. I think he needs to try needle point.

Needle point requires manual dexterity, and if Don's fingers are as inflexible as the rest of his joints...

Now you're assuming he can point a needle?
Which reminds me.............Scott do you remember when you played golf with Don? Did you notice he doesn't repair ball marks on the green? It bothered me, at first, until I realized he didn't get enough spin on the ball to make a ball mark !
Anyway, the fact that he probably can't point a needle reminded me of that.

Don, make sure you save all of this information and start working it into article form. These guys are going to expect to see something of an official review of your experience if you haven't begun to put this together yet. Not sure what approach you want to take, but perhaps a sort of "diary" of your experience would be an interesting format. Just try to think how you'd like to see the information organized if you were someone evaluating their programs for possible purchase... Good stuff.. I'm really impressed with the report.

Ok, I can see from Chris' post this is all serious stuff, so Scott and Aimee, I think the two of you should lay off taking shots at Don's needle point.
Though not as guilty as Scott and Aimee, I'm not totally innocent. I'll not say anything more about Don not being able to spin the ball.
However, I am hoping he can find some spin on this upcoming review.

Hey, don't hold back on my account! I was just letting Don know that the folks from McGetrick will be expecting a full "official" review eventually, there's nothing wrong with throwing jabs in here!

So Chris, it sounds like you're really trying to get it across that you don't care if we soup up Don. In fact, it appears you're actually encouraging it! Kind of like............deep down inside, you're a "roaster" but, you're more of an "in the closet roaster!"
Well, for my part, your secret is safe with me.

You nailed it Bill.

I knew I shouldn't have posted the test results for you guys. I figured you would have tooooo much fun picking on me, but I posted it anyway. DUMB on my part.
Aimee, the testing was done without any warming up before hand. I can only assume they do it the same way with everyone, so the numbers should be valid if one compares everyone the same way.

As for HOw I manage to walk? I'm not sure I can anymore.

What about his intercranial neurons?

This is a cool assessment.

When I did it, she did have me warm up first, Aimee.

I remember when I tried the eyes closed balance thing, I couldn't go longer than 5 sec, either. But I practiced and got up to 30 sec. I wonder if that really is useful for golf?

I'm glad I scanned through this. Ron is "always" telling me to keep my stomach muscles up through the downswing, and I dutifully try to keep them right where they started. From reading this, I gather that what he really means is that he wants the 20% pelvic tilt backward that they mention. I will let you know how that works.

[quote=laney]
I remember when I tried the eyes closed balance thing, I couldn't go longer than 5 sec, either. But I practiced and got up to 30 sec. I wonder if that really is useful for golf?
quote] I think there are 2 aspects to balance...you have the inner ear thing which you can't control, and there are the tiny adjustments you can train your muscles to make to maintain balance. I know that when I was training in karate we did certain things with eyes closed and what happens is you develop a true sense of where every part of your body is in space (if that makes any sense). I think keeping your eyes closed sharpens your feel and control because you exclude the exterior visual influences. Lots of gyms include Bosu ball exercises because the act of keeping your balance activates many more muscles involutarily.

Feel and sight also factor into balance. My brother who is legally blind was having trouble at the beach last year because once his feet went under water, he couldn't see them or the bottom. That along with his lack of feeling in his feet meant he had major balance issues while trying to get out in the ocean.

No question, if you can't see to adjust your balance, not being able to feel to compensate has to be scary.

I can only assume that doing balance drills will improve the muscle strength as you are forced to maintain your balance.

Don, that is correct, having to maintain balance works a lot more muscles that normally don't get worked out!

Wow Bill, the Harmon course is a thousand a day! You know it sounds hig. I have been taking a lot of lessons over the las six months and in Southern CA it is about 70 to 100 for a one hour one on one. So 8 lessons is 800 and you don't get the nice hotel. It sounds like a good trip. I just might do that once the weather cools. Have you been there?

Swingpro, I haven't been there. Actually I wasn't the guy taking lessons, I was the guy giving lessons.

Wow, Bill doesn't have to be there to give lessons! I've gotta get my swing posted...

So Bill are your really that good? I liked your putting advice but I didn't know you were a pro. Is your office in saloon #10? Or is there a course in Deadwood?

I'm not really that good, I just talk a good game.

No. 10 is down the street from my office. (For those who don't know, Saloon No. 10 is where Wild Bill Hickok was shot)

My wife and I moved here because we're building a recreation real estate project with an Arthur Hills/Steve Forrest designed golf course and a hunting and outfitters lodge. It's called The Wyoming Club. We're currently doing the web site, but we have a temporary website if you want to see the layout. www.wyomingclub.com
If you want to see the hunting and fishing lodge www.cheyenneridge.com

Swingpro1; Don't believe what Bill just said.

HE REALLY IS THAT GOOD. I'VE SEEN HIS SCRAP BOOK FROM WHEN HE WAS A PRO, AND HE IS THAT GOOD. ONE OF THE TOP 10 INSTRUCTORS AT ONE TIME. SINCE RETIRED, BUT YOU DON'T FORGET HOW TO TEACH.

Don, you keep saying all these nice things. It's getting to where I feel really bad if I soup you up about anything.

But not really, really bad.

Bill,
Real nice place..I approve!

Bill; I'm not worried, I'm sure you will be as mean as you feel like no matter how much nice stuff I post about you. And that's fine by me. Wouldn't know it was you if you were NICE to me all the time. No sense having friends if you/I can't pick on them.

That is very cool. I get out your way once a year. I have a trip planned in august. I bring my clubs where ever I go. We are making a stop in new underwood to visit a friend. I will check out your web site. By the way great tips on putting. I have allways had a lot of respect for a good short game.

Whoa, that was a quite a detailed report. But, don't take it to heart. Surely you can still golf. You may have to work harder at it than some, but if you really want to do it, hopefully you still have a chance.

A buddy of mine just completed the Titleist Fitness school and is now doing assessments so I'll probably head over to his place at some point here soon and go through what I think will be a similar process. Should be interesting.

Don, that is a pretty cool fitness test. What do they charge for that?