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#31115 - 04/27/09 07:15 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: DON]
DON Online   content

Vance
*****

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
I got my test results back and after reading the findings, I'm surprised I can hit a ball at all, Not a pretty fitness report if you ask me. I'm posting the whole report here. It's pretty long, but I wanted you to see just how much detail was involved in the testing process. Next thing to do is go to the site and see exactly what my workout schedule looks like and then get started on my road to improvement. Wish my luck, I think I might need it.

Here's the full report, sorry about the length of it.


Evaluation Findings

Client: Don Fisher
Pro: Dee Tidwell
Pro Email: deetidwell@hotmail.com

Your Golf Fitness HandicapT: 17.2


Mobility


You have 141-150 degrees of flexion in your lat muscle on the right. Normal range of motion on the PGA Tour is over 180 degrees. Any limitation in the right lat can limit your ability to rotate your trunk around your lower body past impact and it can cause your right arm to be restricted through your finish




You have 141-150 degrees of flexion in your lat muscle on the left. Normal range of motion on the PGA Tour is over 180 degrees. Tightness in this muscle can lead to loss of spinal posture as the arms are elevated during the backswing. Plus, this can restrict your overall shoulder turn during the backswing.


You have 66-70 degrees of right rotation in your neck. Normal range of motion is over 75 degrees. You are just below the average range of motion. If this range of motion becomes any tighter it may start to limit your ability to maintain your posture during the downswing and prevent your from fully rotating your shoulders through impact.
You have 66-70 degrees of left rotation in your neck. Normal range of motion is over 75 degrees. You are just below the average range of motion. If this range of motion becomes any tighter it may start to limit your ability to maintain your posture during the downswing and prevent your from fully rotating your shoulders through impact.

You have limited flexibility between your upper and lower body when rotating your trunk to the right. Normal right rotation is over 70 degrees on the PGA Tour and you had 41-50 degrees. This will limit you ability to fire your trunk around your lower body and maintain a good stable posture through impact and your finish.



You have limited flexibility between your upper and lower body when rotating your trunk to the left. Normal left rotation in over 70 degrees on the PGA Tour and you had 41-50 degrees. This will limit you ability to fire your trunk around your lower body and maintain a good stable posture through impact and your finish.



You had 41-50 degrees of right rotation in just your thoracic spine. Normal for the PGA Tour is over 60 degrees. More rotational flexibility in the thoracic spine will definitely help you create coil between your upper and lower body during the backswing.


You had 41-50 degrees of left rotation in just your thoracic spine. Normal for the PGA Tour is over 60 degrees. More rotational flexibility in the thoracic spine will definitely help you cover or fire your upper body around your lower body during the downswing and finish.
You have good flexibility in both your hip flexors.

You have good flexibility in both quadriceps.


You have good flexibility in both TFL's (the muscle on the outside of your thigh).

It is difficult for you to modify the position (tilt) of your pelvis in golf posture. This is an important skill for being able to transfer energy from the lower body to the upper body in the swing. In top level players, their pelvis tilts backwards almost 20 degrees during the downswing due to the contraction or firing of their abdominals. Your limitation can be due to lack of mobility in your lumbar spine or weakness in the abdominal and gluteal muscles.



You have difficulty rotating your lower body independent of your upper body. This can prevent you from initiating the downswing with a proper sequence and limit the coil (x-factor stretch) between your upper and lower body.


You have good coordinated control of the muscles that rotate your lower body independently from your upper body. This is important for proper sequencing in the golf swing.
When standing in golf posture, you have the flexibility to separate your upper body from your lower body. This is important for creating power and maintaining a stable posture between your upper and lower body during the swing.
It is tough for you to perform a full deep squat while keeping your heels on the ground. Because of this limitation, maintaining a flexed, stable posture during the downswing becomes close to impossible.
It is tough for you to perform a full deep squat while keeping your heels on the ground due to limited calf flexibility bilaterally. This can make it extremely difficult for you to maintain good posture through the impact zone. Because of this limited flexibility in your calves, maintaining a flexed posture from the waist down and preventing any forward thrusting towards the golf ball during the downswing becomes close to impossible.
You do a great job of evenly distributing your weight between your right and left side during routine movements, like performing a squat.

It is difficult for you to bend over and touch your toes with your knees locked. This can be due to a bilateral hip restriction or inflexibility in your lumbar spine, calves and hamstrings. These limitations can make it difficult to set up in a good golf posture and maintain that posture throughout you swing. Hip restrictions can make sitting into your right hip on the backswing and posting into your left hip during the downswing seem impossible. They can also lead to lower back and hip pain during golf.



It is difficult for you to bend over and touch your toes with your knees locked. This can be due to a bilateral hip restriction or inflexibility in your lumbar spine, calves and hamstrings. These limitations can make it difficult to set up in a good golf posture and maintain that posture throughout you swing. Hip restrictions can make sitting into your right hip on the backswing and posting into your left hip during the downswing seem impossible. They can also lead to lower back and hip pain during golf.


The total external rotation in your left shoulder is over 90 degrees while standing tall. The average range of motion for players on the PGA Tour is over 90 degrees. You have good external rotation in your left shoulder, which should allow you to rotate your left arm properly through impact and the follow through.
You tend to lose the ability to fully externally rotate your right shoulder when getting into your golf posture. This is usually due to lack of stability in the shoulder blade on the right when bending from the waist. In other words, your right shoulder blade tends to move or shift excessively when you get into golf posture and this directly limits the total range of motion in the shoulder joint itself.

You have moderate functional hamstring flexibility on the right and moderate iliopsoas flexibility on the left.



You have moderate functional hamstring flexibility on the left and moderate iliopsoas flexibility on the right.



You have 41-45 degrees of internal hip rotation (rotating your foot inwards) on the right. Normal hip internal rotation on the PGA Tour is over 45 degrees. Any reduction in hip internal rotation on the right can lead to an inability to rotate around your hip on the backswing (sway).


You have 51-60 degrees of external hip rotation (rotating your leg outward) on the right. Normal hip external rotation on the PGA Tour is over 55 degrees.

You have 41-45 degrees of internal hip rotation (rotating your foot inwards) on the left. Normal hip internal rotation on the PGA Tour is over 45 degrees. Any reduction in hip internal rotation on the left can lead to an inability to rotate around your hip on the downswing (slide).


You have 51-60 degrees of external hip rotation (rotating your leg outward) on the left. Normal hip external rotation on the PGA Tour is over 55 degrees.

Stability
You tend to lose the ability to fully externally rotate your left shoulder when getting into your golf posture. This is usually due to lack of stability in the shoulder blade on the left when bending from the waist. In other words, your left shoulder blade tends to move or shift excessively when you get into golf posture and this directly limits the total range of motion in the shoulder joint itself.
The total external rotation in your right shoulder is over 90 degrees while standing tall. The average range of motion for players on the PGA Tour is over 90 degrees. You have good external rotation in your right shoulder, which should allow you to set the club and rotate your right arm into any position that you want during the backswing.
You are good at stabilizing your lower body and rotating your upper body independently in both directions. This is important for creating power and maintaining a good spine angle between your upper and lower body during the swing.

You have a good ability to stabilize your upper body when asked to rotate your lower body independent of your upper body. This will help you generate power and create a proper downswing sequence.



You have lost mobility and strength in the muscles that control the left shoulder blade and shoulder girdle. This will lead to loss of width in the left arm and limited range of motion in the leftt shoulder during your golf swing.



You have lost mobility and strength in the muscles that control the right shoulder blade and shoulder girdle. This will lead to poor posture and limited range of motion in the right shoulder during your golf swing.


The muscle on the outside of your right hip, the glute medius, is not firing properly (inhibited) or it is weak. This can be due to chronic muscle imbalances or lack of use. This limitation can lead to lateral instability in the right leg during the backswing.

The muscle on the outside of your left hip, the glute medius, is not firing properly or it is weak. This can be due to chronic muscle imbalances or lack of use. This limitation can lead to lateral instability in the left leg during the downswing.



We tested your right gluteal strength in what is called a bridge position. It was very difficult for you to stabilize your pelvis in this position, which indicates a weakness in the right glute max. Right glute weakness can cause instability in your right leg during the backswing and limited power on the downswing.



We tested your left gluteal strength in what is called a bridge position. It was very difficult for you to stabilize your pelvis in this position, which indicates a weakness in the left glute max. Left glute weakness can cause instability in your left leg during the downswing.



Balance
We tested your ability to stand on your right leg only with your eyes closed. This is testing a trait called proprioception or your "feel balance" on the right side of your body. You could only stand for less than 5 seconds before having to open your eyes. 25 seconds is considered good balance for the elite golfer. This limited balance on your right side can limit your ability to load into your right side or cause you to lose stability during the backswing.

We tested your ability to stand on your left leg only with your eyes closed. This is testing a trait called proprioception or your "feel balance" on the left side of your body. You could only stand for less than 5 seconds before having to open your eyes. 25 seconds is considered good balance for the elite golfer. This limited balance on your left side can limit your ability to post into your left side or cause you to avoid your left side during the downswing.



Posture
You have too much arch in your lower back at set up. We call this a S-posture and it can put excessive stress on your lower back and cause instability of your lower body throughout the golf swing.


The MYTPI program is intended for golf performance improvement. The physical evaluations and exercise programs suggested here are developed based on the assumption that you are in reasonably good health and are not intended for injury rehabilitation. The MYTPI program is no substitute for individualized medical advise. You should consult your doctor before you begin this or any exercise program.

The physical evaluations described here require you to perform various movements to help you to understand where you might have relative strengths or weaknesses. If you feel pain, discomfort, out of breath or dizzy during any of these physical evaluations, you should consider that an "Incomplete" test and move on to the next evaluation. You should stop exercising if you feel pain, discomfort, out of breath or dizzy while performing any of the exercises described here.
_________________________
Putting is easy, IF you have the right putter.
Later, Don.

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#31118 - 04/27/09 08:11 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: DON]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...

Well Don, after looking this over, it all beg's a question.

Is fishing good in the Denver area?
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#31122 - 04/27/09 10:05 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
DON Online   content

Vance
*****

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Bill, I hear you my friend. I'm thinking Beginner level Kite Flying might be more suited to my body fitness level at this point. Fishing might be a bit much I'm afraid.

The Good News is TPI was able to come up with and exercist routine for me to follow. Will have to give it a try and see if it helps. From the fitness report, I doubt it could hurt any.
_________________________
Putting is easy, IF you have the right putter.
Later, Don.

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#31125 - 04/27/09 01:21 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: DON]
Aimee Online   content
Hogan
****

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2145
Loc: NJ
Holy cow! Don, how do you manage to stand upright???
Serious question, though - did they let you warm up before checking your flexibility? Because if not, of course you're going to show limited range of motion.
_________________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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#31131 - 04/27/09 02:32 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Aimee]
srushing Offline

Vance
*****

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 3067
Loc: North Carolina
Don, one word for you: YOGA. You need some help my friend. smile

Fishing? Bill, he can't fish in this condition. He's always be casting to onside or the other, missing his intended line. I think he needs to try needle point.
_________________________
Golf is a game that can't be won, it can only be played - Bagger Vance

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#31134 - 04/27/09 03:01 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: srushing]
Aimee Online   content
Hogan
****

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2145
Loc: NJ
Needle point requires manual dexterity, and if Don's fingers are as inflexible as the rest of his joints...
_________________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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#31135 - 04/27/09 03:02 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: srushing]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...
Originally Posted By: srushing
I think he needs to try needle point.


Now you're assuming he can point a needle?
Which reminds me.............Scott do you remember when you played golf with Don? Did you notice he doesn't repair ball marks on the green? It bothered me, at first, until I realized he didn't get enough spin on the ball to make a ball mark ! shocked
Anyway, the fact that he probably can't point a needle reminded me of that. crazy confused smile
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#31137 - 04/27/09 04:14 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
ChrisB Offline

Niklaus
*****

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Moon Twp., PA USA
Don, make sure you save all of this information and start working it into article form. These guys are going to expect to see something of an official review of your experience if you haven't begun to put this together yet. Not sure what approach you want to take, but perhaps a sort of "diary" of your experience would be an interesting format. Just try to think how you'd like to see the information organized if you were someone evaluating their programs for possible purchase... Good stuff.. I'm really impressed with the report.
_________________________
Chris Bereznay
Golf Gear Review

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#31139 - 04/27/09 06:09 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: ChrisB]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...
Ok, I can see from Chris' post this is all serious stuff, so Scott and Aimee, I think the two of you should lay off taking shots at Don's needle point. frown
Though not as guilty as Scott and Aimee, I'm not totally innocent. I'll not say anything more about Don not being able to spin the ball.
However, I am hoping he can find some spin on this upcoming review. smile
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#31140 - 04/27/09 06:53 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
ChrisB Offline

Niklaus
*****

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Moon Twp., PA USA
Hey, don't hold back on my account! I was just letting Don know that the folks from McGetrick will be expecting a full "official" review eventually, there's nothing wrong with throwing jabs in here!
_________________________
Chris Bereznay
Golf Gear Review

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#31141 - 04/27/09 08:07 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: ChrisB]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...
Originally Posted By: ChrisB
Hey, don't hold back on my account! I was just letting Don know that the folks from McGetrick will be expecting a full "official" review eventually, there's nothing wrong with throwing jabs in here!


So Chris, it sounds like you're really trying to get it across that you don't care if we soup up Don. shocked In fact, it appears you're actually encouraging it! wink Kind of like............deep down inside, you're a "roaster" but, you're more of an "in the closet roaster!" smile
Well, for my part, your secret is safe with me. cool
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#31142 - 04/28/09 03:01 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
ChrisB Offline

Niklaus
*****

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Moon Twp., PA USA
You nailed it Bill. smile
_________________________
Chris Bereznay
Golf Gear Review

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#31150 - 04/28/09 07:55 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: ChrisB]
DON Online   content

Vance
*****

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
I knew I shouldn't have posted the test results for you guys. I figured you would have tooooo much fun picking on me, but I posted it anyway. DUMB on my part.
Aimee, the testing was done without any warming up before hand. I can only assume they do it the same way with everyone, so the numbers should be valid if one compares everyone the same way.

As for HOw I manage to walk? I'm not sure I can anymore.
_________________________
Putting is easy, IF you have the right putter.
Later, Don.

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#31236 - 05/02/09 04:54 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Aimee]
laney Offline

Palmer
*****

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 1397
Loc: houston, tx
Originally Posted By: Aimee
Needle point requires manual dexterity, and if Don's fingers are as inflexible as the rest of his joints...
What about his intercranial neurons?

This is a cool assessment.

When I did it, she did have me warm up first, Aimee.

I remember when I tried the eyes closed balance thing, I couldn't go longer than 5 sec, either. But I practiced and got up to 30 sec. I wonder if that really is useful for golf?

I'm glad I scanned through this. Ron is "always" telling me to keep my stomach muscles up through the downswing, and I dutifully try to keep them right where they started. From reading this, I gather that what he really means is that he wants the 20% pelvic tilt backward that they mention. I will let you know how that works.

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#31252 - 05/03/09 06:47 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: laney]
Aimee Online   content
Hogan
****

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2145
Loc: NJ
[quote=laney]
I remember when I tried the eyes closed balance thing, I couldn't go longer than 5 sec, either. But I practiced and got up to 30 sec. I wonder if that really is useful for golf?
quote] I think there are 2 aspects to balance...you have the inner ear thing which you can't control, and there are the tiny adjustments you can train your muscles to make to maintain balance. I know that when I was training in karate we did certain things with eyes closed and what happens is you develop a true sense of where every part of your body is in space (if that makes any sense). I think keeping your eyes closed sharpens your feel and control because you exclude the exterior visual influences. Lots of gyms include Bosu ball exercises because the act of keeping your balance activates many more muscles involutarily.
_________________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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#31258 - 05/03/09 11:58 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Aimee]
srushing Offline

Vance
*****

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 3067
Loc: North Carolina
Feel and sight also factor into balance. My brother who is legally blind was having trouble at the beach last year because once his feet went under water, he couldn't see them or the bottom. That along with his lack of feeling in his feet meant he had major balance issues while trying to get out in the ocean.
_________________________
Golf is a game that can't be won, it can only be played - Bagger Vance

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#31261 - 05/03/09 01:29 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: srushing]
Aimee Online   content
Hogan
****

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2145
Loc: NJ
No question, if you can't see to adjust your balance, not being able to feel to compensate has to be scary.
_________________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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#31293 - 05/04/09 01:01 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Aimee]
DON Online   content

Vance
*****

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
I can only assume that doing balance drills will improve the muscle strength as you are forced to maintain your balance.
_________________________
Putting is easy, IF you have the right putter.
Later, Don.

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#31299 - 05/04/09 04:46 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: DON]
Aimee Online   content
Hogan
****

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2145
Loc: NJ
Don, that is correct, having to maintain balance works a lot more muscles that normally don't get worked out!
_________________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. ~ Albert Einstein

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#31972 - 05/29/09 04:38 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
swingpro1 Offline
Hacker

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 14
Wow Bill, the Harmon course is a thousand a day! You know it sounds hig. I have been taking a lot of lessons over the las six months and in Southern CA it is about 70 to 100 for a one hour one on one. So 8 lessons is 800 and you don't get the nice hotel. It sounds like a good trip. I just might do that once the weather cools. Have you been there?

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#31976 - 05/29/09 07:05 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: swingpro1]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...
Originally Posted By: swingpro1
Have you been there?


Swingpro, I haven't been there. Actually I wasn't the guy taking lessons, I was the guy giving lessons. shocked
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#31987 - 05/30/09 06:55 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
laney Offline

Palmer
*****

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 1397
Loc: houston, tx
Wow, Bill doesn't have to be there to give lessons! I've gotta get my swing posted...

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#32073 - 05/31/09 02:03 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: laney]
swingpro1 Offline
Hacker

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 14
So Bill are your really that good? I liked your putting advice but I didn't know you were a pro. Is your office in saloon #10? Or is there a course in Deadwood?

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#32078 - 05/31/09 04:00 PM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: swingpro1]
Bill H. Offline
Vance
****

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3186
Loc: Cabo San Lucas & Deadwood, S.D...
Originally Posted By: swingpro1
So Bill are your really that good? I liked your putting advice but I didn't know you were a pro. Is your office in saloon #10? Or is there a course in Deadwood?


I'm not really that good, I just talk a good game. blush

No. 10 is down the street from my office. (For those who don't know, Saloon No. 10 is where Wild Bill Hickok was shot) frown

My wife and I moved here because we're building a recreation real estate project with an Arthur Hills/Steve Forrest designed golf course and a hunting and outfitters lodge. It's called The Wyoming Club. We're currently doing the web site, but we have a temporary website if you want to see the layout. www.wyomingclub.com
If you want to see the hunting and fishing lodge www.cheyenneridge.com
_________________________
"Act the way you want to be,
And soon you'll be the way you act."
O.E.Sage

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#32204 - 06/03/09 10:39 AM Re: Golf Training Facilities [Re: Bill H.]
DON Online   content

Vance
*****

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Swingpro1; Don't believe what Bill just said.

HE REALLY IS THAT GOOD. I'VE SEEN HIS SCRAP BOOK FROM WHEN HE WAS A PRO, AND HE IS THAT GOOD. ONE OF THE TOP 10 INSTRUCTORS AT ONE TIME. SINCE RETIRED, BUT YOU DON'T FORGET HOW TO TEACH.
_________________________
Putting is easy, IF you have the right putter.
Later, Don.

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