Self. please read part two.

Dear Mr. Golf Ball.

You stupid piece of plastic junk. If I want'ed you to slice to the right, I would have set up over there.

Now get back to where I told you to go.

OR I'LL BE BACK TO HIT YOU SOME MORE, AND I WILL NOT STOP HITTING YOU UNTIL YOU GET IN THAT CUP LIKE TO TOLD YOU TO.

YAH RIGHT...
I have a deep authorative voice and the "damn ball" only responds super is when I 'kiss-it" and softly say "Who is your daddy"....Remember it only works when you say it softly...But,
it can be done in front of others in the same foursome...It likes to "Show Off"....
Try it, you will see it works....

I think you could both use the beer Chris spilled.

So, why do you think this is a problem?
How do you hit the ball with your new "not a full turn" swing?

Where is that video yo posted that looks like you're swinging a Louisville Slugger? I want to look at it.

Well, much better actually. Probably marginally further, but more consistently straighter. I can't remember where that pic is, let me look around a bit.

Chris are you guys talking about this photo?

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/MxZXybXS2DGl-t1rYVBicA?feat=directlink

Jesh, Thanks, that's the one.

Bill

I'm looking at this still pic of you swinging a club. I won't make a lot of suggestions, but I do have a couple.

As you said in your post, you are working on keeping your left arm firm, but you feel like there's not much flexibilty to make your turn.

First of all, at this point, don't try to over extend your turn. that's what causes many people's left to break down in the first place.

Your stance is a little narrow which is causing you to make a slight lateral move (slide) instead of turning. This moves your weight to the outside of your right foot during your backswing and prohibits your turn.
Solution: Widen your stance about 2 inches.

The next thing is; I can't see your right arm, but I guarantee you it's "flying" and pulling your left arm back, causing it to collapse. If you want to keep your left arm firm and make a decent shoulder turn, try this.........................
At address, let your upper arms rest against your body. Not pressing against, but resting naturally. Start your take away with your left shoulder, let your backwing go as far as it will without trying to force, what you think is, a full shoulder turn. Everything will fall into place.
It will most likely feel uncomortable at first, but after 20 or 30 shots, it will start feeling natural. Your swing will be more together and compact and terrible shots will be NO MAS!

Chris, if it works for you, try hitting enough balls in the next week or two to make it feel comfortable. When that happens, I have a couple more things to go over with you.

If what I told you doesn't feel like it works for you, don't do it.

Bill

My memory is that my best shots happen when my arms are soft, so the left gives a little at the top, then straightens out again on the way down. Stays mostly straight, but not like a board. Anybody agree or disagree?

My slice sounds like what Scott said. I get ahead of the ball by trying to push off my back leg, rather than staying back and rotating, and don't have time to get the clubhead around. What other things cause a slice, Bill?

Guys, is it possible to still hit well, even without straightening my left arm? I notice sometimes when I'm just swinging like on practice swings, it's not always straight, but I never focus on that, and I do mean never. But usually I hit the ball pretty good, normally in the direction I want it to go.

Jesh,
Check out how much this guy bends his left arm.
It looks like he hits the ball fairly good.
It might be good to see if this is what you do with your left arm.

www.metacafe.com/watch/361150/the_perfect_golf_swing/

Bill

My left arm doesn't get and stay perfectly straight. The key is what the club face is doing at the point of impact. So yes, I think you can bend your left arm and still make quality shots.

I used to worry about that straight left arm thing, especially noticable in still pictures in the mags. My left arm does not get straight it just naturally bends and, I think, I have hit some very good shots over the years. I feel that if the swing is good and does not leave a closed or open clubface at impact then the left arm has straightened as much as it needs to.

You guys are correct. Bending your left arm is OK.
I didn't know you all were hitting your shots with the most power and accuracy possible.

Usually when the left arm breaks down during the backswing, it simply means the player is extending their backswing past optimum (for them).
If you can see that the shaft of the club is from the left shoulder (if right handed) to the clubhead, with a hinge in the center, then it's easy to understand that any "break" in that shaft weakens it and diminishes consistancy.

Fred, you never have to worry about anything if you practice it until it becomes automatic. Then you never have to think about it.

The problem is, most people try to stiffen their left arm and it becomes uncomfortable and the mechanics don't work.
The best way to work on your left arm, staying as straight as possible, is to have the correct grip pressure and arm allignment at address.
You left hand grip should be with the most pressure in your little finger, ring finger and thumb. If you hold a club this way, you will feel it stiffen your elbow.
Next, at address, is your left elbow pointing toward the ground or toward the target?
Most people point their elbow to the ground which makes it real easy for the elbow to bend in the backswing. The left elbow should point toward the target. If you do this, you will see that on your backswing it's more difficult to prematurely raise the arms and bend the elbow.

Bill you kind of lost me on that left elbow pointing to the target thing. Unless I misunderstood I can't seem to do this without changing my grip, ie. rotating my left wrist to the right, can't tell for sure as I don't have a club to grip right now. Can you explain this a little further as this seems to be important.

If you're addressing the ball and your left elbow is pointing toward the ground, you will be able to raise your hands (with the club in them) and touch your head.
If your left elbow is pointing toward the target, you can't bend your elbows and touch your head. So it's ok.
If your elbow is pointing toward the ground, just rotate your arm clockwise. There will be no need to move your wrist or adjust your grip.

Fred, check out

www.hookedongolf.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/ernie-els-swing-the-big-easy/

You'll see at address, Ernie Els has his left elbow pointing to target.

Bill

OK now I understand what you're saying. I need to address a ball with club tonight to see where my elbow is - never noticed.

Fred, pay attention to your grip.
left hand........grip the club with your little finger, ring finger and thumb.
Not a "death grip" just enough pressure to have a solid hold on the club.
Practice this and having your elbow pointed toward the target and it will help keep your left side firm, without thinking about it.
You will probably need to hit a few hundred balls until, like I said earlier, it feels so natural you won't have to think about it.

Fred, Since we're not looking at each other, in person, on a driving range, I'm going to remind you to start you backswing with your left shoulder, not with your hands.
If we were on a range together, we would work on one thing at a time and move on as you "got it," but we're not. SO, (1) be concious of taking the club back with your left shoulder turn instead of with your hands and arms. (2) Concentrate on your grip until if feels comfortable, (3) then work on your elbow until it feels good and natural. Trying to get comfortable by doing all three things at one time will slow down your progress, so take it step at a time.
Doing these 3 steps will be a tremendous help in keeping your left arm from collapsing.

Well, the amount of left arm bend I'm talking about is what I saw in the video you posted, up there at the top.

That's a nice point about left elbow pointing to target, something I do most of the time, but sometimes my swing gets too "in and up," and this may be a solution. Thanks.

Laney,
What are you doing up so early?

I normally get up at 4:30 or so, but don't get online then.

Bill, thanks so much for the tips. Can't wait to get to the range now. That new R9 just showed up today too, so I'm even more motivated. Starting the turn with the left shoulder just sounds like it makes sense without having tried it yet. Surprised this is the first time I'm hearing that, even with an instructor a few years ago.

I will also work on just taking the turn to where it wants to stop naturally. I'm just going to work on these two things, though, although I know I need help on the follow through.. but that's for later, let me burn this in with a large bucket!!!

Thanks!!

Although a certain moderator, won't name names, but his initials are DF, doesn't like the R9 because of the adjustable shaft, you'll like it, the cool factor is level 9.
Chris, if you were taking lessons, ideal would be to work on one, maybe two things at a time. Get those down and move on to one more thing until you have it all and it becomes part of what you do. Then, when your game is off, all you need do is go back to the basics of what you know and, like the skunk when the wind changes direction, it all comes back to you.

Now, I wish this thing was as simple for me as it now is for you!

I tried the idea of pointing my elbow to the target, and it didn't work out for me. My takeaway started inside too fast. (I can't say exactly how that messes up the rest of my swing, but it is ugly and feels ugly.) I had to turn my elbow down just a tad to get the right takeaway back. It works better for me to focus, not on the elbow, but on pushing the clubhead low and straight back for the first few inches, with my left side, of course. It was an interesting experimentt, though.