OK, here's the situation...

I've been told that it's against the rules to hit the flagstick while putting, but it you do it when off the green it's ok - that's why you see people's fellow competitors tending the flag, then picking the flag up as the ball approaches the hole.

I was playing this weekend with three strangers, and one of the fellow competitors was tending the flag. I putted the ball from about 40 feet, and it got closer and closer to the cup, but the guy didn't pull out the flag.

Right as the ball was about to roll into the cup, this... dude pulled the flagstick out, but he didn't pull it straight up - the ball hit the metal foot of the flagstick and bounced out.

What's the rule? Is it a penalty on me for not pulling out the flag myself before putting? Who pays for the extraction of my golf umbrella from this guy's rear anatomy? What exactly happens in this case?

Admiral,

It doesn't matter whether the person tending the flag is your opponent, your caddie, his caddie or your grandmother. It also doesn't matter if they tried to remove the flag and failed. It doesn't matter if the holder dropped dead and was thus unable to remove the flag.

If a putt hits the flag it is a two stroke penalty assessed to the putter in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.

BTW, I'd leave the umbrella exactly where you put it

LOL, rushing... I'm not even going to cover his copay to get it removed...

This is a tough one for me, because it seemed like they guy almost tipped the stick forward to flick the ball as it approached the hole. That's what got me so mad.

I could easily see some jerk using the "letter" of this rule to steal two strokes or a hole from a guy. Can you imagine playing someone and being up a stroke on the 18th, he "accidentally" flicks the ball and uses those two strokes to beat you?

Well I guess the thing to do if you're in a real competition is either have your own caddy who's on your side or have them pull the flag before you putt but after you've lined up, and take that out of the equation.

But yes, determining the 'intent' is subjective and difficult. If you can prove it though, that caddie/player combination is DQ'd as I understand it.

That makes sense, srushing... thanks a lot!

Admiral, Scott is correct here, but this is the same topic I posted on last week. And the RULE is completely STUPID. if this ever happens to ME, I'm going to call my putt HOLED, and move on. If someone doesn't like my call, they can take SAID umbrella, and do what you mentioned to themself.

I've been reading through the Rules of Golf book, and the interesting thing about the whole flagstick issue is that you can NOT pull it once the ball has been struck. It's having to do with "outside influence" on the ball. If someone wants you to hold the stick, you can't pull it when the ball is halfway to the hole, it has to be pulled before the putter strikes the ball.
You can (if you are a team mate or caddy) point the line using the flagstick so long as it doesn't actually touch the green.

Aimee,

You are not competely right.

Rule 17-1 sais:

If the flagstick is not attended, removed or held up before the player makes a stroke, it must not be attended, removed or held up during the stroke or while the player's ball is in motion if doing so might influence the movement of the ball.

To attend the flagstick means usually, that the person, who attends the flag, stands close to the flagstick and removes it from the cup after the player putted the ball and before the ball reaches the cup.

Only if no one attends the flagstick before the stroke, it must not be removed after the stroke.

The flagstick, which has been removed prior to the stroke, may even be removed after the stroke (rule 24-1 b), which was prohibited before 2008.

McFade

Yeah, I think McFade's right. I see caddies all the time pulling the flag as the putts well on the way to the hole, not before the putt is struck.

I think the concept is that if the caddy has their hand on the flagstick, so they intend to pull it...vs if they are standing nearby then run up to pull the stick when the ball gets close?

Aimee

Rule 17-1, Note 1 sais:

If the flagstick is in the hole and anyone stands near it while a stroke is being made, he is deemed to be attending the flagstick.

So the Flagstick is deemed to be attended, even if the caddie doesn't touch it. But usually a caddie will have his hand at the stick. So there can be no misunderstanding and he can be shure, that he can pull the stick in time.

You are right if the caddie or the fellow competitor are not near the flagstick and hurry then, after the putting stroke was made.

McFade

Well the USGA change the ruling a couple years ago after a situation where a tour player putted a ball from way away on the green and after it had rolled past the hole, but was still rolling, the caddie pulled the pin. Well that immediately set off the viewers at home who called in and said add a penalty because the ball was still in motion even though the ball was past the hole.

So the USGA changed the ruling somewhat to compensate for that situation but in general, if the flag is being tended, it can remain in the cup till such time as the caddie pulls it, hopefuly before the putt arrives

You're right, don... I saw yours after I posted my question. Sorry about that. My big point was the issue of the fellow competitor "accidentally" knocking the ball away.

The guy was a jerk and I'm definitely no paying his copay... If it makes it to the People's Court, then I'm calling all of you as expert witnesses!

I usually leave the flag in if Im playing alone. Makes for quicker play I say

I know it's against the rules, but I have done the same thing a few times when I was close enough to have a easy tap-in, and didn't want to waste the time to pull the flag.
I do this all the time on the practice green. If the ball hits the stick, it's a good putt. If it goes in but doesnt hit the stick, it's only a SO SO putt.

I admit I do the same thing if I'm playing alone. my short putts are traveling so slow that they are not likely to hope out of a whole. The pin doesn't affect my lipouts so I just leave it in.

I read somewhere that you should ALWAYS pull the flag when you are on the practice green putting. Supposed to be bad to leave the flag in as it gives you a DIFFERENT look compared to when you are on the course, and you have to pull the flag.
Do any of you pull the flag on the practice green? or do you just leave it in? I just leave it in, and try to hit the flag stick with the ball.

The practice green I usually use doesnt have any flags. The other one I will sometimes use has those small 2 foot flags that you can use to get the balls out without having to reach into the cup.

I don't pull the small flags on the putting green because then I have to work too hard to get the ball out of the hole when I make the putts