There is some work being done on one of our local courses. They are turning what was a waste area into a pond. Around the perimeter, they have put straw on the ground to protect it until the grass grows in. It has not been marked with stakes for ground under repair. Would you consider it as such just for the obvious reason that it is under repair???

I would assume they don't really want you hitting your ball from there and taking a divot. So I'd be a nice guy and take a free drop out of the area and save the new green they planted. That's what I'd want golfers to do if it was my golf course.

Makes me wonder why they didn't put stakes around the area to make it obvious...

I would consider it GUR. I actually make a judgment call like that sometimes at my course. If there's an area they're working on but haven't marked or an area they should be working on i will make the call.

Area being worked on.........YES
Area they should work on.....NO

But it's OK to play it all as GUR because the members of this forum don't agree with the USGA Rules of Golf and make up their own rules anyway..............

I knew I would likely solicit a response from Bill...I was hoping he was STILL ON VACATION!

It's true. Bill is correct and I know that. I admit it. Good thing I'm not playing on tour.

Since most courses don't always have player assistants available I usually just ask if there are any repairs or rules for the day on the course when checking in. Sometimes it is as simple as 90 degree rule on specific holes. Anyway it is a good way to see how the manager wants you to handle those situations. Although Bill is right, sometimes you have to use your good judgment because like Don said they most likely do not want you making any divots in an area they are obviously trying to protect. I guess the contractor is not a golfer and does not know to stake the area. The course I usually play at is pretty well staffed and they are good about staking things off and even marking GUR areas with white paint but not all courses have the budget for that. Maybe they can add that to the new stimulus package.

I respect the rules of golf as much as the next guy and understand why they are important.
But for a 16-handicapper out on an afternoon with a couple buddies? I'm picking the ball up out of the straw and dropping it. There's no doubt the superintendent didn't want players hitting out of that, but just didn't stake it.
Submitted with all due respect to our friend in the great state of Wyoming.

I'm afraid, Bill is right again.

This rules forum should help everyday golfers to learn more about the rules of golf.
So we should try to find solutions, which are based on the rules of golf. I don't mind, what golfers practise during their daily or weekly round of golf with their buddies.
But nevertheless, we should try to find out, what the rule based answer is.

The rules define ground under repair as a part of the course, whis has been marked as such by the committee.
Otherwise, in a competition - and this is where the rules of golf are important - every group of golfers would decide on theire own, if a free drop could br taken or not. So we would have different conditions for different golfers and not a fair competition.

McFade

McFade, you're right.

Again, I'm way to liberal with the rules (and the Bible in fact but let's not bring religion into this ) when I'm out with friends or just playing by myself, and I know that. I usually say since no one is writing a check at the end of a round, if the players got to hit where roots and rocks will likely damage the club, let them move it. I know during competition they'd leave it as is, but we're not at that time. But during competition, of which I have a 3day event coming up at the end of this month, I do my damnedest to stick to the to the letter.

But it does skew our score though I doubt more than a stroke or two. But you and Bill are right, and we should promote an accurate understand of the rules. Thank you!

Question will be asked before our tournament next weekend, if it's not on the rule sheet. I'm sure, like the local rule allowing loose rocks to be removed from the sand traps so you don't damage your club-or yourself-they will say that area should be treated as GUR.

While I'm sure both Bill and McFade are correct, I'm also pretty sure most golf courses, DON'T have a committee standing around making up day to day rules to take care of this kind of stuff, especially if the course has had some recent damage due to weather, like rain damage. And I'm pretty sure the people paying the bills for course maintainance would agree, taking a free drop away from the new grass area under the pine straw, is exactly what they would want us to do. Not play the ball as it lays, and take a nice big divot in the newly seeded grass area. Having respect for the rules of golf is fine, but it's also good the be respectful of the golf course you are playing on.

If they don't have a committee or the ability to know what to protect on their golf course, they shouldn't own a golf course. That's part of a golf course superintendent and his staff's responsibility and they see and inspect the course everyday.

Why are we, on this forum, trying to find creative ways to change the rules to our liking???? I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.

Let's all run the red light because it's set too long and there's no cars coming. (eventually something bad will happen)

Come on Gang, let's play the game the way it should be played.

BTW, I do understand if there are some things that are agreed upon by the group before playing.............but they should be things that do not alter a players score for hdcp. purposes and not following rules and not turning in scores does that.

Not playing the game by the rules also creates bad habits. Case in point, look how comments about rules being wrong and not following them have become a habit on this forum.

Rules..........I can't believe it.........last night while we were playing poker, I tried to claim a pot by telling them I didn't agree with "according to Hoyle" and I decided my 3 of a kind should beat a flush.

Oh well, being banned from the club will probably save me a lot of money.

That's perfectly right, Bill.

These people believe, that it is unsportsmanlike, to play strictly along the rules of golf. I dont't think, that they believe the same about baseball or hockey.

It's quite often that I play in a match or in a club competition and meet golfers who play on the course at least twice a week.
Then I find out, that they don't know how to apply some of the most important rules. The reason for this lack of knowledge is, that they practise a lot, but always with their home made rules.

They often loose matches to opponents, who know, how they can gain advanteges from the rules of golf.
So, basic knowledge can help every golfer; and the best way to get and preserve knowledge of the rules is to play according to the rules regularly.

McFade

With the state of th economy being as bad as it is, NOT every golf course has the man power or time to mark-off EVERY area that should be marked off as ground under repair. I'm sure they could hire more staff to do the added work, and then they could raise the greens fee to pay the wages of those workers. Bottom line is WE the golfers PAY more in greens fees, something I believe the majority of use don't want to do.

McFade; If I was playing in a tourniment, and my ball ended up in an area as mentioned in the first post, I'D BE HAPPY TO PLAY THE BALL AS IT LIES, because it's a tourniment, and it's what is required, and the hell with what ever damage I might do to the golf course. But if it was my regular weekday round of golf, I'd rather respect the golf course, and screw the RULE BOOK.

Every golf course has greens keepers and most have a pro or golf director. The superintendent and his staff, see the golf course every day before people even tee it up. They let the golf shop know of any problems, i.e. the area behind the 3rd green has been trampled by a moose and reseeded. The golf shop then lets the people who are playing today know this area will be played as GUR. This has nothing to do with good economy, or bad economy. If the economy of a golf course is so bad they don't have anyone to mow the greens or rake the traps, they probably aren't open for play anyway.
Again, if it's not marked on the course, or not presented or posted as a local or temporary rule, all a golfer is doing is using creative avoidance and making up their own rules.

DAMN THE COURSE...FULL SPEED AHEAD...
NO...I agree with Don why tear up new bushes, flower beds or new sodded areas.
What should the group have done before they notified the pro shop
of what they just observed? Tear it up and then tell them?
Handicap and rules are certainly of the utmost importance. But,
again leaving the facility or venue as we found it should be our main
responsibility...Fixing ball marks, raking traps and yes staying out of area's that we perceive in our foursome as clearly "under repair" marked or not marked.

I think the golf course manager, if he was not able to stake an area off (let's say the workers are constantly doing work in the area and it's just too inconvenient to work around stakes) should at least have the sense to put a sign up on the door of the pro shop, just like whent there are temp greens or cart path only rule, to say "area around pond on hole #...which is covered in straw is to be considered GUR". Not too difficult.

YES...
But the point is, how do we "golfers behave" when they don't post it or alert us before hand? Do the right thing.
LET OUR CONSCIENCE BE OUR GUIDE!!!

Selftaughtman

Not sure if I fall into the 'these people' category but as for on the course, I don't care what anyone else does on the course rules or score wise unless we're playing in a competition. Then, it's by the rules. When I play softball, it's competitive. And, it's by the rules. If I'm in my backyard playing whiffle ball with my 3 yr old and he had his 3 strikes, I'm not going to tell him to go sit down cause he struck out, I'll keep pitching to him. I adapt because it's not competitive.


As Don said, with many of the courses here in bankruptcy, maybe they should do the things you say they should be doing, but something has to give and it does. We don't have someone driving around the $15-to-play course marking up new GUR areas and such. That's a luxury that many courses don't have. Do they do it for major repairs, sure. But it's not a daily or weekly thing by any means from what I can see.

So I adapt and play what I think most appropriate. Could I play every shot of every round by the book, sure, but it would also add length to my rounds as I'm sorting out which rule to apply and calling the clubhouse several times around


So I guess I'm an equal-sport-cheater in a sense.

If because of the economy, the course doesn't have the money to mark or let their customers know about the new bushes, flower beds or new sodded areas, then how did they come up with the money to plant all this stuff?

I guess it's safe to assume all of you that are concerned about the preservation of the course never take divots. But, actually, we don't have to worry about that. Let's tee it up in the fairway, rough and sand traps. Forget the rules, we're leaving the facility or venue as we found it.

I bet some of you roll the ball around to improve your lie.

Let's see...
Dream forum foursome...
Bill H, Scott (srushing) and ? I've got to think about this.
Certainly in the "scramble" format we can "roll it over".
Yep, you are correct Bill, replacing divots or putting in sand on Bermuda, should be a given...

The way I look at it, When I'm playing golf on the course, I'm just borrowing the golf course, I don't own it.

And most of us know that there are TWO types of people when it comes to BORROWING THINGS.

There are those that USE the item, and don't care if they damaged it or not.

And there are those of us, MYSELF included, That ALWAYS, return the item in as good condition, if not better condition, then when we recieved it.
Maybe this is why I respect the golf course, and don't tear it up for no good reason. And maybe this is why some others would rather follow the RULES and the hell with the golf course.

I think, theat the opinions of DON on one side and some others on the other side differ as much, as it seems at first sight.

Bothe sides do not wish to damage the course more than unavoidable. But Bill and others what to discuss, what would be right, if playing according to the rules, wheras the others tell, what they would in a given situation.
What people can learn from an argument like this is, how to play under serious circumstances (important matchplay or official competition) or how to behave during a friendly everyday round of golf.

On a normal round of golf I wouldn't mind to keep away from an area, which is obviously under repair but not marked. But I have in mind, what the rule sais about GuR and try to play as close to the rules as possible. To do so, I should know, what the rules expect me to do.

In most cases there is no loss of fun or respect to the course, when playing according to the rules.

McFade