We were playing a round this morning and one of the guys in our foursome hit the flagstick on a 165 yard par 3. The ball hit the stick and then stuck in the green on top of the cup with just about a third of the ball above the hole. When we got to the hole he gently pulled the pin out and to everyone’s surprise the ball stayed. He did not wait a second he just reached down and pick up his ball saying it was a hole in one. Two of us did not think it was because the ball was still above the hole. His thought was the because the cup was holding it up that it should be counted as in. I can not find it in the rule book but I know it is there somewhere. The question is A hole in one or not? and Should he of had to place the ball on the lip and put it in? Does he now take a penalty for not doing so? It was not a tournament but it was a weekly game that we play for points.

My gut feeling tells me...not a hole in one...loss of hole if match play. If stroke play, replace ball with a penalty.

prov1tony

the definitions in the rules of golf state:

»A ball is "holed" when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole.«

So as long, as a part of the balls is not below the lip of the hole, the golfer has not holed out.
If the flagstick prevents the ball from falling, the flagstick may be removed carefully and if the ball falls into the hole during this action, it is in the hole.

As long as a part of the ball overhangs the hole, the player may approach his ball and wait ten seconds. If the ball falls within this span of time, it is deemed to be holed out with the previous stroke.
If it falls later, the ball is holed out as well, but the player must add one additional stroke.
Read Rule 16-2 for this case.

McFade

Reading Your descriptio

To me, if it didn't go in, or wasn't resting against the flag waiting to fall, it's not a hole in 1. Just because it bounced off the stick and plugged in the ground above the hole doesn't constitute a hole in one to me. Ball has to be in the cup, not around it or above it. it was still a good shot.

but say it's embedded and he marks it, unplugs the ball, repairs the ball mark, but when he tries to place it back in the spot, it can't help but to role into the cup because it's over-hanging the cup, so the ball rolls in the cup. How does he play the second shot?

If this happens within 10 seconds after replacing the ball, is it an ACE?

I would think that once you mark/lift the ball you have determined that the ball is at rest. If you go to place it and the ball mark makes the ball move, you have to place it as close to the proper location but no closer to the hole, correct?

If your ball imbeds itself in it's own ball mark, on the green, and you lift the ball and repair the ball mark, where would you place the ball?

I could mark the ball, repair the hole, and place the ball in the same spot.

But in my scenario above, I was sort of asking if the hole it made was partially in the hole and once you repaired it and tried to replace the ball it kept falling into the hole, what do you do? I guess image the cup was cut and installed so low that the ball could embed in the lip of the hole above the cup.

Scott, playing off what you said, if the ball is imbedded in it's own ball mark in the side of the cup, but not fully in the hole, and it is placed exactly where the ball mark is fixed, and it falls in the hole, wouldn't it be a hole in one?

That is the question.....

I just sent an email to the USGA to verify the decision.
It'll take a few days.

BTW, May be incorrect, but I believe it's deemed a hole in one.

Bill

Yes that is the question. Where we left off is he pulled the stick and the ball stayed because it was being held up by the ball mark and the cup itself. Once he pulled it out it could not be placed back it would just fall in. So he determined that it was an ace but one of the other guys said he was required to place the ball on the lip and put in. I could not find that in the rules. It sounds like the majority say it was an ace though. (Thanks Bill I will wait to see what you come back with.) I was at the course today and everyone was talking about it but nobody knew for sure.

I think, Aimee is right.
If any part of the ball overhangs the lip of the hole, the player may wait 10 seconds, to be sure, that the ball has come to rest. Then it would be an ace.

He may wait 10 seconds, even if only a small part overhangs the lip of the hole and nobody would seriously expect the ball to fall.
If the ball falls in second 11 or 100, the player has to accept an additional stroke. Rule 16-2.

So in our case, the ball had not fallen into the hole within 10 seconds.
The ball was at rest and the player could lift the ball, repair the ball mark and replace the ball.
What happens, if a ball to be replaced, fails to come to rest, can be found in the rules: It has to be replaced at the nearest spot, where it can be placed at rest, not nearer to the hole.

Rule 20-3 d:
If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot....
it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard

That's my solution for this case. I'm realy curios, how the USGA would rule.

McFade

I agree with this rule, however, what deviates from this is the ball was imbedded inside the lip of the cup.

And YOU GUYS wonder WHY I don't agrees with EVERY rule in the book. This is a perfect example of what's WRONG with the rules.
You guys are looking it up online, and you still can't make a decision.

I was talking to the pro at San Ramon GOlf Club and he showed me this USGA site. It is pretty cool
http://www.usga.org/bookdecision.aspx?id=14285
Q. A player's ball embeds in the side of a hole. Part of the ball is above the level of the lip of the hole. What is the ruling?
A. The ball is not holed — see Definition of "Holed." The player may play the ball as it lies or lift the ball under Rule 16-1b, repair the damage under Rule 16-1c and place the ball on the lip of the hole.
So it was not a hole in one according to the rules and he would have to put it in for a birdie.

Tony, I tried to find that in the decision book and wasn't able to find it. So you Dun Gud.
I'm sure this week I'll get the same ruling back from the USGA.
Thanks,
Bill

I thought that if it is inside the grip...It is a "hole-in-one"...I have three (3)...

Just like laws they cant spell out every scenario. Maybe every course should have a rules judge at every hole.