McFade,
It's 6:40 AM in South Dakota. What time is it in Hamburg?

OK, so let me see if I understand what we're doing.
We're saying, "If it's a tournament or competition, we should follow the rules. However, if it's a friendly round of golf we can be more lenient."

Example: If my ball is next to a newly planted tree and there is no local rule telling me to move the ball a couple of club lengths from the tree, I should use my good judgement and protect the golf course. I AGREE WITH THAT.
If there is no posted local ruling stating we can/should move the ball, then we're saying I and/or the rest of my group has to make a decision to save the tree or go against the rules. And, everyone, as they should, wants to save the integrity of the course.

Well! This all beg's a question??????????????

If it's a friendly game, just a fun outing and doesn't mean anything, then why wouldn't I follow the rules and save the tree. All I have to do is declare the ball unplayable and I accomplish both. The only thing that would keep me from doing this is my ego wants me to have as low a score as possible. But if it doesn't mean anything, then what difference would the extra stroke make?

BTW, unless your game is match play, why would you not hole out every putt?

I can see only three reasons for not following the rules.

1. The golfer doesn't know the rules.
2. The golfer's ego is in the way.
3. The golfer is cheating.

It's so easy to create bad habits. If I play all month with my buddies and we give each other putts (inside the leather? but soon we don't even measure them) and at the end of the month my friends and I enter a best ball foresome. Now, we either "fudge" and give each other putts, or we get the shakes because we're putting 2 or 3 footers that we usually don't have to make. Either scenario is not good.

There is nothing that takes away from the enjoyment of golf by following the rules of the game.

Bill H.

A "friendly match" doesn't mean that I'm not trying to shoot a low score... If there is a "little something" on the match. I insist that all rules be followed (other then my "toe wedge" when nobody is looking)...

Selftaughtman

Bill, I agree.

It is really easy to follow the rules in a friendly game and be thoughtfull about the interests of the golfclub.
So let's not yield to the ideas of those, who disrespect the dignified rules of golf.
Let's not forget, that they are older the the US.

McFade

Btw, it's 09.55 pm in Hamburg; should be 12.05 am in Deadwood.

McFade

I love you guys, I mean you all make this site so much fun. And we have people on all side of the issue.

Just makes me wonder, given how you follow the Rule book of Golf to the letter, how do you interpret the Bible?

AMEN (CHECKMATE)

Actually, although they're interpreted according to "man," neither book needs interpretation as they're both clearly defined. Unfortunately, there are slip ups in following the guidelines of either book. It is, after all, the nature of man, for he is in the world.

I guess you are right...There are penalties if you don't follow either book... But the "good book" forgives...The otherone you can be disqualified...

If golfers learn and understand the rules of the game, the rules will help them far, far more than they will harm them.

It's not just "rules"...............................it's the Etiquette and Traditions of a great game that people should learn and preserve. That's even more important than worrying about harming a golf course with a swing of a club. A broken tree limb can be repaired. The integrity of the game, if people don't pay attention, can be lost forever.

BILL H.

Like you, I like to "jerk the chain" a little...
I am a huge tradionalist and preserver of the game...
Still competitive as HELL...Just don't take it as serious as I did. I am way over on your side about the game...

Selftaughtman

I will second Bill's comment that knowing the rules will help you more than hurt you. I see so many people hit one into a hazard and tee up another one from the tee box. I'm like "why don't you drop at the hazard and hit 3 from there instead of from here?". They're like, "Oh, right..."

You finally got it right.

A Chivas 25 over, and I'll spring for the tab.

Bill when you're right your right and you're right.

This has been a real good discussion reading it you have to laugh. The bottom line is all courses have a superintendent and if they are not checking the course in the morning. Then they should not be doing the job. I play at three courses on a regular basis Bookside is a private club so yes they do check and San Ramon golf club is public and they are even better at checking and marking most GUR areas with white paint every day. They keep a list that is updated through out the day with conditions on the course. The third is a par 68 public course out in the country. They are in danger of folding even though they get a great deal from the city of Ripon on the lease. The owner operator and his sons are very good at knowing what is going on in the field every day. If you have a question on any of these courses you can call in to the club house at any hole and ask for a ruling. If you want to save the grass, tree, flowers whatever at any time you can take an unplayable lie. There is no legitimate reason anywhere in this thread to not follow the rules. This was discussed before on a different thread and it was said by some wise sole. When you start moving your ball without accountability or not counting shots it is cheating. The one thing that makes golf a great, great sport is you keep score yourself it is up to you to keep the games integrity. It is different than any other sport and can not really be compared. We keep score to get an index that is used for tournament play so every round score really does count. So although I do relate to all of the examples given and why you might want to move a ball there is a provision for doing this and a penalty to be taken.

Tony,

You can be my "wingman" anytime.

Bill

You guy's have by-passed the enjoyment side of game...
If I have to take an unplayable in a un-marked GUR...The bush, new sod or flowers are long gone... The average golfer should play for enjoyment... Serious players (low hndcp.) absolutely play by all the rules. Average players play in very few tournaments, other then a "scramble"...If they followed every rule, it would add 45 min. to 1 hr. on each round.

I still vote with Don on this one....

I do understand what you are saying and I am just saying for me and my opinion is there are rules and if you play the game play by the rules. I really enjoy the game, I have a lot of fun and so do the people I play with. Golf is what I do for fun. I am not saying to do anything to slow the game just count the stroke when you move the ball.

Selftaught,

So this all beg's a question???

Who will emerge as the best in creative avoidance, you or Don?

Shoulder to Shoulder...I think we can take you both...

Game enjoyment, we will win "hands down".
Creative interpretation goes with the above...Again we win...
Avoidance isn't in the equation when you are playing "game enjoyment.
Your red rebuttal's take the position of the low handicapper.
I disagree that making the average player more rules oriented will "speed-up" play.
Certainly my position is not the "touchy...feely" position of forum members...I realize our expertise is at a higher level and we would never think of bending the rules...FOR ANY REASON!

Selftaughtman

HEY Don...

NEED HELP!!!

STM

You're on.

Although your handicaps are probably much lower than ours and Don knows my score usually joins the Century Club, I'm sure Tony will agree, we'll struggle through it.

PM Don and tell him to suit up.

Hey who is talking golf...Don looks BIG...(Ha!HA!)

Bring it on OLD MAN!!!

Tony,
What are we going to do with these two after we own them?
Scott won't pay much for a couple of caddies who don't follow, or, for that matter, don't even know the rules).
Laney doesn't strike me as the type that would buy old meat out of the discount section.
Aimee's husband probably doesn't want a couple of old putters laying around.
I don't think we can reach reserve if we try to auction them off.
You know, I've always wanted a caucasian gardner. Maybe we could go that route.
Bill

Hey, this is between you and Tony and Self and Don. I'm just an innocent by-stander... I always play by the rules

There's no question about your integrity or character, they are both top notch. Everyone knows you would never, at least intentionally, do what wasn't the right thing.

(Scott, PM me and I'll tell you where to send the check).