those greens sure were strange.

we were pretty excited about the conditions on the front, and they quickly deteriorated.

don was at even par through i think 8 holes.
playing tremendously and kicking my butt, but as the greens got worse it got tougher.
he got in a few jams on the back just like i did on the front, but then the greens were the final touch.

hopefully next week will be better.
we know the COURSE is in great shape, so hopefully the complaints have gotten them to water the greens better.

i switched to a softer 3 piece ball (callaway hx) to help, but even those werent holding too well on the back, and i have a really high ball flight.

hey, at least we scored okay all things considered, and once again came up tied.
we both seem to always play well on opposite nines.
we'd be a hell of a best ball team!!

Don,

If the condition of the greens changed as the round progressed and you saw the crew actively working on them, maybe you should give them a chance to finish and go back in a few weeks. Heck, if I shot 74 the first time I saw a course I'd sure give it a second chance.

JW

That is so cool! I just went to golfcolorado.com for Ss & Gs and they actually have a page with aeration and maintenance schedules! I have got to spread that idea like fertilizer. Lots of good ideas on that site.

JW

That wasn't the first time I have played that course. The first time was a few months ago and the conditions were worse, at least the fairways were worse then, the greens about the same. The first time I played the course I shot 72, so I was rather mad when I started out even par for the first 7 holes(not 8 as Jake remembered), and then the greens keep getting worse as we went along. I don't remember if I mentioned this earlier, but I hit a 107 yard Sand Wedge shot into one green, and the ball didn't make a dent in the green. The ball didn't back up, it didnt' even stop where it landed, it in fact rolled forward about 15 feet. Maybe I'm just being picky, but I realy believe a ball hit with a full swing SW should leave a ball mark and stop on a dime, and give a fair amount of chance. I know for a fact I can stop a TF XL3000 dead in it's tracks with a 8 iron on my local par 3 course, everytime. And the ball I was using yesterday was a softer, higher spin ball than the XL3000. Most any ball is. In any case, that's it for that course for now. Maybe in a few weeks I'll stop in and check the 18th green and see if it's a "brown".

Tee Yards Front 9 Back 9 18 Hole
Women - Red 4651 32.9 105 31.7 95 64.6 100
Women - White 5001 33.7 109 32.7 101 66.4 105
Men - White 4980 32.1 109 31.6 101 63.7 105

Ummm, what kind of course is this that the Women's Tees are longer than the Men's tees?
Hey 74 is pretty good. Doesn't look like it's a full-size course. Sometimes conditions can be hit or miss at tracks like those. I know personally a shorter "executive" 18 like that doesn't really wet my appetite for a true 18 holes. Many people feel this way I think, so those clubs sometimes don't get as much play and the conditions suffer due to the bottom line. I think you guys have to find a course that isn't a muni?? I play muni's, but need to spend a little more for better conditions around here too. Crap, it won't stop raining around here. We're supposed to get 2 inches tonight alone! Cold, now rain. I need summer!!

I just sent don an email with regards to other courses.
my local course (red hawk ridge) is phenominal (jim engh design) and not bad considering the layout.
its 50 bucks with a cart weekdays.
about 20 bucks more, but well worth it.
maybe not every week, but at least sometimes.

as for springhill, i have no idea why its listed that way.
there's only two tee boxes.
womens and mens.
if the women play from the mens, its the same distance since its the same tee box.
whoever listed it made an error.

as for the condition of the course, its far and away the nicest executive ive ever seen.
we have a couple crappy one's here, and that aint it.
its generally in better shape than most long tracks, and its very challenging for a short track.
both par 5's give no relief since theyre impossible (for anyone not professional) to hit in two (you'd need a 250+ yard shot that lands on a dime) and both have uphill fairways and guarded greens, and the short par 4's are all also doglegs which makes them a challenge.
there's a few easy par 3's, but most are well guarded.
its a fantastic executive course, its generally crowded, and other than the greens it WAS in tremendous shape.
the condition of the greens at the aurora courses is a mystery.

there's one other aurora course we havent tried that maybe we should.
meadow hills is now an aurora course, but it was a private track until the 70's.
gorgeous tree lined fairways and alot of fun.
it used to be the best maintained of the aurora courses, though i havent been there in awhile.

we'll try aurora hills again wednesday (we still need to master #10!!), and if its not improved we'll probably try red hawk, meadow hills, or maybe some of the denver courses (which include donald ross designed wellshire)

we'll have to hope for the best.
i was happy with the score, especially considering i was five over after five holes!!
finishing five over the remaining 13 is pretty good for me, especially considering i had problems with my driver until the back nine.

jake

Okay Mr. D. you caught us, Jake and I decide not to tell you guys it was a par 64 course for a few days, but you had to look up the yardage. I have no idea why the yardages you found are that way, the score card I have in front of me says 4992 from the white tees,and 4643 from the red tees. I was pretty happy being even par for the first 7 holes, 1 boggy and than a birdie on 7. But the last 11 holes I was 10 over. Not real happy with that at all. Somewhere along the way, I started think about what it was that I was doing right that I was playing par golf, and then it started to go down hill. I guess it just goes to show you that you shouldn't think about the swing when you play, just let it happen. Two over on the front, 8 over on the back. Good start, rotten finish. Jake was just the reverse, bad start, good finish. Come to think of it, I do remember that it was right about the 8th tee that Jake mentioned that I was playing par golf, you don't think he did it on purpose do you? Jake? You would do that would you? Next time, if he mentions how well I'm playing, I think I'll just hit him with a 9 iron. To tell the truth, it was all my fault, I started thinking about the swing, when I shouldn't have. Stupid me.

Don,

I knew it was an exec as soon as I saw it on coloradogolf.com, but I didn't want to rat you out. So what? I've played some really nice exec size courses and you're playing against par regardless. In fact, I wish there were more of them.

JW

Jake,
I checked out Red Hawk a while back when you posted a link to their site and it looks fabulous! That's a pretty fair price for such a nice looking course. A lot to pay to play on a regular basis of course! I worked out a deal (long story) so I am gonna play this course on Sunday for the first time for only $7 with GPS cart! http://www.whiteeaglegolf.net/
I'm pretty excited!

I was just giving you and Don some good-natured CRAP, of course, by listing the yardages for Mens and Ladies tees for the course you gals played! I got the yardages off the golf colorado web site. They often bungle yardages on such sites. Its always about shooting against par on any course, par 3's included. There's a pitch and putt course near my work I might play on an extended lunch break one of these days. All the holes are under 100 yards I believe, and they only let you bring a putter and a wedge or two. Good short game/wedge practice! I sure hope you guys get some more rain. I'll try to send some your way. I think it has rained every day here for almost 2 weeks! Someone got washed away off a highway down south of here in a flooded river a day ago! It has to stop!!
Its fun to try new courses, glad to see you, er, guys are expanding your golf course choices!

wow!!

that looks like a fabulous course.
very similar to some of our mountain and/or foothills courses.
the golf club at bear dance in larkspur (next town 15 mins south of me) looks alot like white eagle.
lots of trees and beautiful fairways and greens.
its an amazing course, but at nearly 100 bucks a round ill probably only play it once this year.

7 bucks?

geez, who are you sleeping with?
j/k
good for you. enjoy the round and i look forward to seeing how you do.
that course looks as difficult as bear dance also!!

Well Jake,
I wish there was a better story as to how I got the round for $7, but I fanagled an internet deal. Lastminutegolfer.com. They're not in you area yet, I checked, mostly midwest. They had these "promotion" codes you could collect from different businesses and radio shows, etc. Well, they did this in the different regions of the US they are in, with different codes. Thing was, the codes worked no matter where you lived. So I'd just Google the 'net for these codes and add them to my account. They finally caught on this Spring, but I did it most of last summer. I think this will be my 10th free, or close to free, round of golf! There's a limit to how many free golf codes one can collect for a year now. Doah! Isn't the internet GREAT??!

Well, part of the mystery of the poor greens might be solved. I talked to someone at one of the other city owned golf courses, and it seems that the city dicided to try something different this year. Rather than "CORE AERATE" the greens, they just punched small holes in the ground and fills the smaller holes with sand. This means that when they punched holes in the green without removing any soil, rather than loosen the soil, they compacted it. Kind of like when you drive a nail into a piece of wood. You compress the wood where the nail goes in. Same thing happens when they punched the holes in the green, compressed the soil more than it was from being walked on all winter and early spring. No wonder the greens are still brown and hard. I suppose it's too late to correct the problem by Core Aeration now. We'll no doubt have to live with hard greens all year and hope they aerate in the fall. Normally, there is a big pile of core plugs behind the practice area where they are allowed to breakdown into more usable soil. When I was over in the area where the pile has been the past few years, it wasn't there. That fact give more weight to what I had been told, so I have no reason not to believe the guy that told me what the city did, or didn't do, to the greens this year. My guess, the city was trying to save a little money, and all they did was screw up the greens for the whole year. Be nice to get the head of the golf department fired for this mess, or at least get his butt reamed out good. I wonder who I can call and complain to?

Better suggestion for you Don: Call a different course and make a tee time!! I bet if the Superintendent had his/her way, the greens would have been aerated properly. Probably some bean counter breathing down their necks to save a penny.

I think Mr_D is right. Only a pencil necked bean counter could come up with that idea. There may still be a little hope, though. Ask the super if he can verticut the greens. It acts like a little mini-aeration and may soften them up a little.

We have lastminutegolfer and clickitgolf in our area. They are a great way to play different courses on a budget. Especially in the summer months, if you can stand the heat.

JW

Mr. D. We will check out some other courses, but that might not correct the problem with the greens at the City owner courses. And I don't want to have this problem again next year if I don't have to. If no one complains, they might decide to save money again this fall and next spring. Then all seven city owned course will be junk, and they are by far the best deals in terms of cost. Assuming they aerate the greens the right way. I just want to cause enough trouble for the guy in charge that they think twice before they do it again next time.

I just read a product review by a Mr. Mike Carlson of Aurora Colorado, and I would like to invite him to come out and play in the Colorado Closed if he's available. Are you available to play on Wednesdays Mike? Either way, if you read this message, please let me know you are reading the posts in the forum. I understand the owner of HeatherRidge is thinking of selling off the course and the plan is to build new homes on the property. I can't imagine you are too happy with that idea. Type at me when you get the chance and come out and play a round with Jake and me when you can. We are thinking of playing Park Hill on the 27th, they have a promo going for $11.00. We haven't played that course, but for $11.00, it's worth a try. Earth to Mike Carlson, please come in.

well, i think im ready to get out there again.

i went to the doc earlier this week, and the results....well, the results were horrific.

the disc that was bulging and causing the occasional leg pain and numbness (when swollen, the disc tissue would hit the nerve root) is now completely torn in half. its also sitting firmly ON TOP of the nerve root.

basically, the news is this:
i can risk a complete lower back fusion which COULD make me better and could also make me worse. 50/50 odds maybe?
no thanks.
other option is therapy, electrical stimulus, spinal injections, ultrasound, and eventual traction on a machine that calculates muscle tention (which is what made traction largely ineffective in the past) once every thousandth of a second.
ill take door number two of course, but the sad part is that the likely SUCCESSFUL result would not be full recovery.
at this point with the disc torn in half, the definition of success would be reducing pain and meds by 50% or more and increasing activity by 50% or more.
much better for sure, but its kinda scary being in my 30's and realizing that ill likely never again for the rest of my life be close to 100% physically.

its scary, but im also NOT going to whine about it, and im NOT going to stop living.
based on the MRI, my doc thinks the fact that im upright is a pretty good accomplishment in of itself, but he also said essentially the damage is done.
in other words, he said the more i try to do, the more pain ill have, but it wont do additional damage.

that said, i will limit the things i do, but i will NOT give up the sport/activity i enjoy the most.

i played in a scramble tournament yesterday, and actually hit the ball as well as ever.
10 of 12 fairways (twice we were 280 plus up in the fairway already so i saved my strength) and the two i missed were not too far off.
pretty good with the medium and long irons, and tight with the short irons.
yes, alot of distance is gone, but i did still manage to hit one 270 or so, and the worst (it hit fairway but was ugly) was a skimmer that was about 180-200 (short enough to not care enough to know exactly)

yes, it hurt, and yes, it was worth it.
i look for no sympathy here, but since youve all become friends (and don a friend and playing partner), i figured i'd give the update.

something about knowing you cant "grip it and rip it" anymore probably just relaxed me into staying within myself.

anyway, im sure ill have good days and bad days as we all do, and i think my goal of getting to a ten by summers end just took a beating, but ill always play the game i love.
hope you all had great rounds these past couple weeks when i havent been around as much.

jake

Jake,

I have 3 friends who've had back surgery and none of them would describe it as successful. I think you're wise to give the therapy route a shot first. When my chiro mentioned surgery for me I was emphatic about not doing it and the therapy has worked out great. I didn't have a broken disc, but discs 6 through 11 were jammed down on the nerves. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being healthy, he gave that area a 1.5 when we started. It's now about a 3.5 and gives me almost no pain. The therapist will probably be able to give you some stretching exercises that will help relieve pressure on the nerve. Do them religiously.

And work on that short game - you can still make it to a 10, just not the same way.

JW

thanks pal.

i was thinking something similar myself.
ive already had one surgery (L 4/5 lamenectomy a few years back) which actually was successful as it turns out.

ive had back problems since (which i thought were related), but after finally finding a fantastic dr out here, it looks like that surgery did actually accomplish its goal. there doesnt seem to be any problem with that area.
now, its L5/S1 thats the problem, and the MRI is horrible looking. much worse than the one prior to the first surgery.
i didnt need to be a dr. to see it. you could clearly see the disc in two pieces, and coming out the back it looked like a mushroom cloud.

therapy has helped already with range of motion, and though it isnt helping with the pain in the back, it has helped with the weakness in the leg.

youre right about the handicap thing too.
ive always been a longer hitter, and i guess now i just need to accept that im not, and never again will be.
still, when i stay withing myself (like in this tournament) i make as good or better contact as ever.
too bad that WASNT a scoring round for handicap, because it wouldve been a good one, and on a tough course (hale irwin designed highlands ranch golf club).
now, i just need to get better in my short game, and i can still achieve my goal.

ill lessen my activities, and try to take good care of myself, but i wont stop playing golf. i CANT stop playing golf. its one of those few things that really keeps me going in life.

thanks again for the advice, and i hope everyone plays well this weekend.
im taking tomorrow off from golf, but i may go to the range in the afternoon and see if i can keep repeating this slower swing. hey, im still averaging 240-260 on drives (not counting the occasional one i just hit horribly), which isnt too bad at all.
im about 10 yards shorter on irons, but if i can make it more consistent then thats okay too.

hopefully, the Closed will resume wednesday.

jake

Hi Jake; it's good to have you back, well sort of back if you don't mind the pun too much. After reading your post on your back problems, it makes me want to go take a bunch of asprin. It sure doesn't sound like a lot of fun, no matter how you look at it. Can't say as how I'd like to have back surgery either. Can't think of ever hearing of how it really went well. Therapy sounds much better, not good, but better. Just make sure you force yourself to do it when you are supposed to, and don't slack off. Ask the Dr. about walking. Would walking help build up your strength and make the back better, or would the strain make it worse? Let me know about Wednesday and Park Hill for $11.00. Later, Don.

i sent you an email about wednesday.

as for walking, im supposed to do as little as possible.
stretching exercises and such to try and increase flexibility and strengthen my right leg (the disc sitting on the nerve causes my right leg to be weaker than the left and often give out), but what im not supposed to do is walk or sit upright for any length of time.

too bad, because it would be nice to able to start walking courses again.

oh well. as long as i can play, im happy.
ill look for your email, and hopefully see you wednesday.

jake

I was thinking more of walking a few minutes a day on a treadmill, not walking the course. I would think a few minutes a day would help build up your strength and help with staying flexable. Not that I'm a doctor, so what do I know? See you Wednesday at 7:06 or earlier.

oh i see.

yeah, i do walk a little.
mainly, its switching positions often that helps.
walk a little, stand a little, sit a little.
any one place too long is uncomfortable.

the stretches theyve assigned (VERY low intensity) have helped alot also.

we'll just have to see over time.
see you tomorrow,

jake

okay, NOW i mean "see you tomorrow" LOL

i had my days off by one.
getting ahead of myself as usual.

well, we're getting rain most of today, so as long as it runs/burns off this afternoon and in the morning, we should have great conditions.
im looking forward to it.

one swing thought, and one only.

stay within myself.
understand my handicap (not the golf variety), and swing
within myself.
we'll see how it goes.

jake

well, another round in the books.
we both played okay, and scored decent enough (mid 80's) but couldve and shouldve been better.

we got paired with the dreaded "slow and dont care" twosome.

maybe they were having a bad day, or maybe they just plain stunk. either way, it doesnt bother me in the SLIGHTEST to play with bad players, but it DOES bother me when they dont care. we were talked to by the marshall once, and were on the way to it happening again.
on one par five, don hit a very good drive, and a 3 wood second shot to about 30 yards.
i hit my worst tee shot of the day (100 yards tops. topped it trying to swing hard), but followed with a flush 3 wood and 5 iron 3rd shot to get on the fringe.
the two we were paired with took 3 or 4 shots each to reach dons 1st shot, another couple shots to reach my second (even AFTER the bad drive), and the tough thing to swallow WASNT the poor shots, but the fact that they took their sweet time in between. took their time getting there, did a pre shot routine (which you simply cant do when 4 of 5 shots are 20 or 30 yard worm burners), and then casually strolled to the next shot.

we got behind again, and i look back and see the other group behind us (we had already let another group play through on #2) sitting there for well over 2 or 3 mins. waiting to hit.
anyway, i see these guys we're paired with fiddling around the green, and say "guys, we need to pick it up. these guys are waiting on us again."
what i didnt see was that don was addressing his 3rd shot right then, which of course threw him off.
he knew i wasnt talking to him, but it doesnt change that it affected his shot.
personally, i just wanted to light a fire under these guys' behinds so that the marshall wouldnt come back and ask us to skip a hole.
no way i was doing that when don and i were playing AHEAD of pace as we always do.
anyway, frustrating situation, and put a damper on the morning, though i still appreciate each and every time i get to play.
by hole #11 and #12, the pain was pretty severe, but really it just made me more appreciative that at least i could push through it and still play.

anyway, another round gone.
now it would be nice to find another player or two so we can avoid that situation happening again.

the likelihood of a pairing that bad happening again soon is slim, but you just never know.

maybe we need a better way to approach the situation.
its hard for me, because i dont want to insult the other people, but i need to find a polite way to tell them that they really need to speed up. pick up a ball here and there. play ready golf (one of the guys actually had the nerve to act a bit irritated that i played in front of him a couple times, and he wasnt even to his ball yet since he was walking and i was riding), try and speed up around the greens, etc.
if youre going to 4 putt every hole, you dont need to mark the ball and get down pro style and read the green.
just step up and hit it, you know?

don and i are far from professional, but we do care about our game, and its frustrating when we're forced to rush shots because of other players being slow and not caring.

any suggestions on a polite way to light a fire under people like that?
i tried the subtle hints a couple times (once being the one that i mentioned) but they paid no mind, and all that ended up happening is friction between me and don and deteriorating shots because of pressure to play faster.
any advice besides the obvious "knock them out with a 3 wood" joke is appreciated.

jake