Hey gang. Just got my Mizuno Raw Black Ox wedges today. Hit them in my basement (half swings) and they're pretty sweet. They do take little white bits out of even Pro V1's, so beware. But they will probably spin like mad, so it's worth it I think. They have Dynamic Gold "Wedge" flex shafts. What is this exactly? True Temper's Web Site was no help. My Cleveland 900's have Dynamic Gold "S" on them. Is there a difference?
They seem like perhaps they have a lower kick point just from my half swings? Thanks Gang!

Don't know about the TT shafts, but I know Rifle makes a Spinner Wedge shaft just for the scoring wedges. They have a softer feel for less than full shots around the green. I got them in all my wedges below the PW. They have a low bend point that is supposed to help produce more spin on the ball. I hope this helps some. Too bad you can't try them out on the course back there, I would have liked to hear what you think of them around the green. How bad is the ball damage? How many shots do you guess it would take to make you want to remove the ball from play? That number and the price of the ball you like to play, would have an effect on whether the Black Ox wedge is a good club to have for some of us. Of course if you are a low handicap player trying to get down to scratch, it might be well worth it to ruin a ball or two for one or more strokes off your score. Later, Don.

I've only seen Rifle shafts with that kind of flex designation. Mizuno is big into proprietary shafts - maybe they had TT do it just for those wedges. It sounds like it might be stiff with a soft tip for feel.

I checked the reference pages on Golfsmith and also mizunousa and came up dry so I sent the following to ask.tts@truetemper.com />
A friend has a Mizuno Raw Black Ox wedge with a TT Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex shaft. Could you please define 'Wedge Flex'?

Thank you.

John Weimer
10005 Gardendale Ct.
Charlotte, NC 28269
jjw901@bellsouth.net
704-717-7465

I'll forward the response.

JW

Hey, thanks JW!
I went to the same 2 web sites you did right off the bat when I was looking. It takes some companies so long to respond so often that I often look to it as a last resort! I'm thinking your idea of a stiff flex with more responsive tip is probably the case. It will be interesting to see their definition. Thanks again!

Well, I contacted Mizuno via E-mail through their web site. Here is the less than detailed response I received:

Thank you for contacting Mizuno USA. Wedge flex is the same as S300. (at such a short length there is very little difference between R300, S300, and X100 flexes)

Mizuno USA
http://www.mizunousa.com
Consumer Support Division
1-800-966-1211

re:
I purchased 2 Mizuno Raw Black Ox wedges that I am very pleased with. They are shafted with the True Temper Dynamic Gold "Wedge" flex shafts. What is "wedge" flex exactly? Is it a "Stiff" with a more responsive tip? Any technical specs you may have on this shaft would be appreciated. Thank You!

Not exactly the response I was hoping for.
Maybe True Temper can give a more complete answer? All these companies taut the technological advantages of their products in their advertising, but never seem to have anyone with technical knowledge manning the "front lines." GRRR....

Hi Guys,
Normally wedges, from a gap wedge to a lob wedge are shafted with a stiff shaft. The purpose is to take the "kick" OUT of the shot. Your main goal with your wedges is to hit it as straight as possible with consistant distance. You don't need any "kick" to get the desired backspin. Think in terms of "high trajectory, soft landing." That's what 56 and 60 degree wedges are designed for. I also realize there will be shots that require punching down on a 56 degree wedge to hit it low with as much backspin as possible, or opening the face. But, that's not the norm.
The Muzuno response said there is very little difference between r, s and x, because at that shaft length, there is little difference in the action of the shafts. This is due to length of shaft and the reduction in swing speed of the shorter clubs.
Bill

Mr-D,

Here's what I got back from TT - the same thing you got from Mizuno.

From: "Ask TTS" <ask.tts@truetemper.com>
Date: 2004/12/30 Thu PM 01:34:38 EST
To: <jjw901@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex?



John:

The "Wedge" flex designation is one used by Mizuno and several other
OEM's. The shaft is simply a Dynamic Gold S300.

TTS


JW

jw,
Thanks for the follow up. I thought perhaps it would have a different kick point. Like others have mentioned, there is the Precision Rifle "Spinner" wedge shaft. Well, the Mizuno Raw Black Ox Wedges with TT "wedge" shafts have excellent feel to them anyway!

Makes you wonder why they use a "wedge flex" name for the shafts if they are nothing more than the Dynamic Gold S300? The only thing I can come up with is that if the shaft was marked "stiff", someone that plays a regular flex shaft would think that the wedge wouldn't work correctly for them and argue about it. "Wedge Flex" fits all golfers and solves the problem before it starts. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. While we are on the subject, has anyone out there played two different sets of irons with different flexs and seen any real difference in distance? I hit regular flex graphite and X-stiff steel in the Callaway X-16's and hit the ball the same distance. I didn't gain any yardage at all with the softer shafts, as I had been lead to believe I would. How about the rest of you? Any difference in distance?

Don,
Just out of curiosity, did you only hit one club (say a seven iron?) in regular and X flex? One thing to keep in mind is that pretty much anyone can absolutely wail on short irons and hit good shots, no matter the club type or shaft flex (much like the wedge situation above.) I have found this to be the case many times when demoing clubs and they have the obligatory six iron in every make conceiveable available to hit. Many times even if it is a cavity versus a blade, the difference in distance is neglible. I would venture to guess if you hit an X flex 3 iron vs. a regular flex 3 iron, the true difference would show. Maybe you did? I'm interested to hear the details.

Thanks for the feedback. In fact, I did hit a wedge in my test, one reason for this is it's easy to see how far I hit a short iron as it's easy to see where the ball lands. Not as easy with a longer iron and then you also get more roll. The practice range I use just happens to have a yardage marker at the exact distance I hit my PW, so this made it real easy to see just how far the balls were going in the air. The steel shafts in my current set are about 130 grams and the graphite shafts are supposed to be about 75 grams. I was thinking that this would also add a few yards to the graphite shafted PW. After reading your post, I guess I should have tried more clubs, not just one PW. If what you stated is true for most golfers, I would think that the difference in carry distances between clubs would increase with the softer flex shafts. I have a 15 yard difference now, I don't think I would like that to increase much, if at all. A 15 yard difference is bad enough to work with when I am between clubs. I might have to see about building two 3 or 4 irons, one with an X-stiff shaft and one with a regular flex shaft and try the same test again. I don't know of too many golfers that would complain about a few more yards with their longer irons. You have a pretty good knowledge base on golf, I wish you were local, so we could play a few rounds of golf and hit a few balls at the practice range so I could pick your brain a little. Any chance you might get to Denver in the near future? Would be nice to meet you and play 18 holes with you. Later, Don

Don,
I wish I had more time to travel. I'm 29 years old and don't have much time away from work. Most of the time I play 36 to 54 holes on the weekend, and take a day off during the week to play another 18 if I'm lucky. Damn the man!!!
Life is backwards. Our best golfing years are spent at work. I saw your post on getting a Golf Gear Review trip set up. Sounds fun. It's just hard to get people to commit precious time and money for a trip to meet people for the first time. Usually they go with buddies or family. Good idea none the less!

Mr_D,

I couldn't agree with you more about life being backwards. Many, many moons ago I proposed that when we hire on with a company they should pay us for 20 years of retirement first. Then, at 40 or so, we'd start to work and keep on working until we died.

It made perfect sense to me. I can't imagine why it never caught on.

JW